User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 40 1234511 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 396

Thread: The Anatomy of Fascism

  1. #1
    Points: 49,948, Level: 54
    Level completed: 61%, Points required for next Level: 702
    Overall activity: 26.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteran50000 Experience Points
    jet57's Avatar Banned
    Karma
    2375
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    19,121
    Points
    49,948
    Level
    54
    Thanks Given
    1,698
    Thanked 2,365x in 2,003 Posts
    Mentioned
    284 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    The Anatomy of Fascism

    By Robert O. Paxton, 2004 Vintage Press
    There are people who still do not understand that Fascism was and still is populated in full by far right-wing nationalist extremists who detest the left and continuously work to destroy it by whatever means necessary and author Robert O Paxton put years into The Anatomy of Fascism in order to show how what Fascism is and how they took over Europe: who they hated and who they rewarded, and why. I’ve taken three paragraphs from the reading to show that conservatives and business were the chief aids to Fascism taking of power. This shows us that the very idea that Fascism is some sort of left leaning phenomenon or agenda is just plain ludicrous.

    Forming Alliances

    pg100
    We saw in chapter 3 that the Nazis received less direct financial help from business than we may have assumed. Before the final deal that put Hitler in power, German big business greatly preferred a solid reassuring conservative like von Papen to the unknown Hitler with his crackpot economic advisors. In the final tense months, when Hitler was refusing all lesser offers in an all-or-nothing gamble on becoming chancellor, and when party radicalism resurfaced in the Berlin Transport Strike, money grew scarcer. The NSDP was virtually broke after a disappointing election of November 1932. A relatively minor Cologne banker, Kurt von Schoder, served as a go-between in negotiations between Hitler and von Papen, but business contributions did not become a major resource for Hitler until after he attained power. Then, of course, the game changed. Businessmen contributed hugely to the new Nazi authorities and set about accommodating themselves to a regime that would reward many of them richly with armament contracts, and all of them by breaking the back of organized labor in Germany
    What Fascists Offered the Establishment

    pg103
    The fascist offered more than mere numbers. They offered fresh young faces to the public weary of an aging establishment that had made a mess of things. The two youngest parties in Italy and Germany were the communists and the fascists. Both nations longed for new leaders, and the fascist offered conservatives a fountain of youth. The fascist also offered another way of belonging – deeper commitment and discipline in an era when conservatives feared dissolution of the social bond.

    Fascists had also found a magic formula for weaning workers away from Marxism. Long after Marx asserted that the working class had no homeland, conservatives had been unable to find a way to refute him. None of their nineteenth-century nostrums – deference, religion, schooling – had worked. On the eve of World War I, the Action Francaise had enjoyed some success recruiting individual workers to nationalism, and the unexpectedly wide acceptance by workers of their patriotic duty to fight for their homelands when World War I began foretold that in the twentieth century Nation was going to be stronger than class.

    Fascist everywhere have built on that revelation.
    Another seductive fascist offer was a way to overcome the climate of disorder that the fascvist themselves had helped to cause.
    pg104:
    In sum, fascist offered a new recipe for governing with popular support but without any sharing of power with the left, and without any threat to conservative social and economic privileges and political dominance. The conservatives for their part held the keys to the doors of power.

  2. #2
    Points: 113,588, Level: 81
    Level completed: 98%, Points required for next Level: 62
    Overall activity: 37.0%
    Achievements:
    Tagger First ClassSocial50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    stjames1_53's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    53403
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    42,083
    Points
    113,588
    Level
    81
    Thanks Given
    84,163
    Thanked 24,421x in 17,067 Posts
    Mentioned
    141 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    By Robert O. Paxton, 2004 Vintage Press
    There are people who still do not understand that Fascism was and still is populated in full by far right-wing nationalist extremists who detest the left and continuously work to destroy it by whatever means necessary and author Robert O Paxton put years into The Anatomy of Fascism in order to show how what Fascism is and how they took over Europe: who they hated and who they rewarded, and why. I’ve taken three paragraphs from the reading to show that conservatives and business were the chief aids to Fascism taking of power. This shows us that the very idea that Fascism is some sort of left leaning phenomenon or agenda is just plain ludicrous.

    Forming Alliances

    pg100

    What Fascists Offered the Establishment

    pg103


    pg104:
    proving once again, you don't have a clue as to what you're talking about, but you'll sure lie about it
    For waltky: http://quakes.globalincidentmap.com/
    "The Nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools."
    - Thucydides

    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote" B. Franklin
    Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum

  3. #3
    Points: 83,209, Level: 70
    Level completed: 32%, Points required for next Level: 1,641
    Overall activity: 81.0%
    Achievements:
    1 year registeredSocial50000 Experience PointsOverdrive
    carolina73's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    26894
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Posts
    33,601
    Points
    83,209
    Level
    70
    Thanks Given
    34,668
    Thanked 26,886x in 17,284 Posts
    Mentioned
    103 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by stjames1_53 View Post
    proving once again, you don't have a clue as to what you're talking about, but you'll sure lie about it
    But he thinks he found someone to agree with him and that is the only qualification he needs.
    Let's go Brandon !!!

  4. #4
    Points: 577,959, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 58.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second ClassYour first GroupOverdrive50000 Experience PointsTagger First ClassVeteran
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    Chris's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    417958
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    176,476
    Points
    577,959
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    23,924
    Thanked 65,533x in 45,636 Posts
    Mentioned
    1926 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    the OP is rather vague and incoherent as to what exactly the point of this thread is. I'll take it as Paxton's view of fascism.

    To set some context, Paxton is a lefty, as we'll see in the following piece he wrote. But we don't want to dismiss him for that, it'd be ad hom. His view of fascism is, I think, fair enough, though I'm no expert. You'll just have to weed out the left attitude to get at the right stuff.


    Jan 7, 2016, ROBERT O. PAXTONIs Fascism Back?

    In 2015, “fascism” once again became the highest-octane political epithet in general use. Of course, the temptation to apply the fascism label is almost overwhelming when we confront language and behavior that superficially resembles that of Hitler and Mussolini. At the moment, it is being widely applied to cases as disparate as Donald Trump, the Tea Party, the National Front in France, and radical Islamist assassins. But, though the temptation to call such actors “fascist” is understandable, it should be resisted.

    ...At its creation in the 1920s (first in Italy and then in Germany), fascism was a violent reaction against a perceived excess of individualism. Italy was scorned and Germany was defeated in World War I, Mussolini and Hitler claimed, because democracy and individualism had sapped them of national unity and will.

    <snip historical events>

    The fascists set themselves up (and acquired elite support) as the only effective barrier to the other political movement that surged following World War I: Communism. To international socialism the fascists opposed [sic, offered] a national socialism, and while they crushed socialist parties and abolished independent labor unions, they never for a moment questioned the state’s obligation to maintain social welfare (except for internal enemies such as Jews, of course).

    <snip The Islamic State is not fascist.>

    The Tea Party is at the farthest remove from fascism’s state-enhancing nature. With its opposition to all forms of public authority and its furious rejection of any obligation to others, it is better called right-wing anarchism. It is individualism run amok, a denial of any community obligations, the very opposite of a fascist appeal to the supremacy of communal obligations over individual autonomy. [Such hyperbole but still.]

    <snip The National Front and its founder, Jean-Marie Le Pen.>

    Donald Trump is a special case altogether. Superficially, he seems to have borrowed a number of fascist themes for his presidential campaign: xenophobia, racial prejudice, fear of national weakness and decline, aggressiveness in foreign policy, a readiness to suspend the rule of law to deal with supposed emergencies. His hectoring tone, mastery of crowds, and the skill with which he uses the latest communications technologies also are reminiscent of Mussolini and Hitler.

    And yet these qualities are at most derivative of fascist themes and styles; the underlying ideological substance is very different, with the entitlements of wealth playing a greater role than fascist regimes generally tolerated.... <snip diatribe against Trump, the important point, Trump is not a fascist.>

    It is too bad that we have so far been unable to furnish another label with the toxic power of fascism for these abhorrent people and movements. We will have to make do with more ordinary words: religious fanaticism for the Islamic State, reactionary anarchism for the Tea Party, and self-indulgent demagoguery on behalf of oligarchy for Donald Trump. There are fringe movements today, such as Aryan Nations in the United States and Golden Dawn in Greece, that draw openly upon Nazi symbolism and employ physical violence. The term “fascist” is better left to them.

    In general then, according to Paxton, ignoring his dislikes, neither the Tea Parties nor Trump, what we might call the right in America, are fascist.

    Fascism, per Paxton, was national socialism. It was as opposed to Western democracy and capitalism and individualism as the communists were.
    The trouble with our Liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. -- Ronald Reagan

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to Chris For This Useful Post:

    Mister D (01-17-2022)

  6. #5
    Points: 48,108, Level: 53
    Level completed: 59%, Points required for next Level: 742
    Overall activity: 45.0%
    Achievements:
    25000 Experience Points1 year registeredSocial
    The Booman's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    17804
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    That's me over there
    Posts
    17,474
    Points
    48,108
    Level
    53
    Thanks Given
    7,643
    Thanked 17,794x in 10,065 Posts
    Mentioned
    37 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Right bad. Left good.

    Grade school level tripe.

    This space available

  7. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to The Booman For This Useful Post:

    Carl Young (02-19-2022),carolina73 (01-17-2022)

  8. #6
    Original Ranter
    Points: 272,016, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 20.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second ClassOverdrive50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Mister D's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    410991
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    107,806
    Points
    272,016
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    22,907
    Thanked 47,935x in 32,647 Posts
    Mentioned
    1059 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    the OP is rather vague and incoherent as to what exactly the point of this thread is. I'll take it as Paxton's view of fascism.

    To set some context, Paxton is a lefty, as we'll see in the following piece he wrote. But we don't want to dismiss him for that, it'd be ad hom. His view of fascism is, I think, fair enough, though I'm no expert. You'll just have to weed out the left attitude to get at the right stuff.


    Jan 7, 2016, ROBERT O. PAXTONIs Fascism Back?




    In general then, according to Paxton, ignoring his dislikes, neither the Tea Parties nor Trump, what we might call the right in America, are fascist.

    Fascism, per Paxton, was national socialism. It was as opposed to Western democracy and capitalism and individualism as the communists were.
    I agree with most of what he has to say there. I agree with you that the Trump critique is a distraction.

    Get ready for a new thread in the Hole. You'll get the notification soon enough. This is one weird mofo.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


  9. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Mister D For This Useful Post:

    Chris (01-17-2022),The Booman (01-17-2022)

  10. #7
    Original Ranter
    Points: 272,016, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 20.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second ClassOverdrive50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Mister D's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    410991
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    107,806
    Points
    272,016
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    22,907
    Thanked 47,935x in 32,647 Posts
    Mentioned
    1059 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by The Booman View Post
    Right bad. Left good.

    Grade school level tripe.
    IQ57 has been raging about this for months and he still doesn't understand the argument he's trying to debunk.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


  11. #8
    Points: 48,108, Level: 53
    Level completed: 59%, Points required for next Level: 742
    Overall activity: 45.0%
    Achievements:
    25000 Experience Points1 year registeredSocial
    The Booman's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    17804
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    That's me over there
    Posts
    17,474
    Points
    48,108
    Level
    53
    Thanks Given
    7,643
    Thanked 17,794x in 10,065 Posts
    Mentioned
    37 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    This space available

  12. #9
    Points: 48,108, Level: 53
    Level completed: 59%, Points required for next Level: 742
    Overall activity: 45.0%
    Achievements:
    25000 Experience Points1 year registeredSocial
    The Booman's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    17804
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    That's me over there
    Posts
    17,474
    Points
    48,108
    Level
    53
    Thanks Given
    7,643
    Thanked 17,794x in 10,065 Posts
    Mentioned
    37 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    IQ57 has been raging about this for months and he still doesn't understand the argument he's trying to debunk.
    Hacks don't need to. They just have to parrot.

    This space available

  13. #10
    Points: 83,209, Level: 70
    Level completed: 32%, Points required for next Level: 1,641
    Overall activity: 81.0%
    Achievements:
    1 year registeredSocial50000 Experience PointsOverdrive
    carolina73's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    26894
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Posts
    33,601
    Points
    83,209
    Level
    70
    Thanks Given
    34,668
    Thanked 26,886x in 17,284 Posts
    Mentioned
    103 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Fascism refers to a way of organizing society with an emphasis of autocratic government, dictatorial leadership, and the suppression of opposition. The word entered English as a result of Mussolini's 'fascisti' in Italy, but 'fascisti' and 'fascio,' both referring to a bundle, were used to represent labor and agrarian unions in Italy since at least 1872.


    A Fascist leader rules by Fascism.


    It can be right wing, left wing, wingless...

    It is more of a method of governing than a form of government.

    Anyone that depends on a single textbook definition of a form of government is a going to look like a fool. There was also nothing unique about the Nazi party. It was just the combination of historical events that defines the government of that error in Germany despite it itself evolved during its short life.
    Last edited by carolina73; 01-17-2022 at 10:03 PM.
    Let's go Brandon !!!

  14. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to carolina73 For This Useful Post:

    Orion Rules (01-18-2022),The Booman (01-17-2022)

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts