Aloy Takes Lara Croft's Crown

[IMPress Polly]

Can't believe I just now saw the news that Horizon Zero Dawn has sold over 20 million copies! People naturally make some comparisons to the sales of The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild since the games both belong to the same genre and were released at a similar point in time in early 2017. I would point out though that Breath of the Wild was the latest installment in a franchise that had been established for generations, while Horizon was a new IP at the time. But there's also another way in which Horizon's success stands out: It's now the top-selling video game ever to star a solo female protagonist. The previous record in this category was held by 2013's Tomb Raider reboot, which had sold 14.5 million copies as of last November. A sequel called Horizon Forbidden West is due out on Friday.

I think the success of both games goes to show the difference that simply investing comparable resources into games about women and girls as one might sink into games about men and boys can make. Statistically-speaking, that ain't traditionally happened. Traditionally, games with a female-only protagonist have had, on average, only 50% of the marketing budget of female-optional games, and 40% of the marketing budget of games with male-only protagonists.* When people can't see them because they're scarcely advertised or they look less impressive than other games, it's no wonder they don't typically sell as well.

* https://web.archive.org/web/20130321...t-support-them

[Ethereal]

Men spend way more money on video games than women do. So it makes sense that they would invest more money into games that appeal to men. As women have spent more money on games, companies have invested more money into appealing to women. Markets are not perfect, but they are the most democratic and responsive economic system there is for a modern world.

[IMPress Polly]

Men spend way more money on video games than women do. So it makes sense that they would invest more money into games that appeal to men. As women have spent more money on games, companies have invested more money into appealing to women. Markets are not perfect, but they are the most democratic and responsive economic system there is for a modern world.

The tired, age-old argument against appealing to female gamers is a circular one:

1) Men are the primary consumers of video games, so game companies focus on appealing to them.
2) Women buy fewer games because they're made to appeal to men. Return from here to point 1.

But unlike that famous chicken-or-the-egg scenario, we know which one came first because the industry was created overwhelmingly by men. Men tend to think mostly about what other men will want to play. Keeping it that way is a choice. More women can be, and indeed are being, brought into the business precisely for reasons of companies wanting to reach an expanded market, increasingly. And what you choose to invest in a given game's development and marketing is, at the end of the day, a choice. No one is compelled to make the sexist choice.

[Peter1469]

A similar thing happened in porn. So some women started their own company and produced porn for women.

Do the same thing in the gaming world.

[IMPress Polly]

A similar thing happened in porn. So some women started their own company and produced porn for women.

Do the same thing in the gaming world.

What is "porn for women"? I have the feeling I've missed something here.

Well anyway, it's just kind of a naive demand. I mean women sometimes do just that, create games of their own, and I might add that many of my personal favorites were created primarily or exclusively by women (better-known examples would include Butterfly Soup and the Portal games), but the fact is that a lot of the more visible women-created games are only visible because they were supported by well-established publishers like Valve and Sega, not the product of new startups. Otherwise you're talking about entering a field requiring extremely high levels of capitalization at this point and competing against some of the richest and most powerful companies on Earth. It's not the most tempting prospect, and what's more the market is massively consolidating at this moment (e.g. Microsoft recently bought out Activision-Blizzard in the largest acquisition in the medium's history), not seriously opening up to more new players. Women-created games remain a largely invisible niche phenom as a result.

Fortunately though, we are seeing some major developers start to hire more women than they have in the past, including sometimes elevating them to high-level positions. One of the best examples of that I'd cite is Naughty Dog. Their most recent title, The Last of Us Part II, which was voted overall Game of the Year by both critics and gamers alike in 2020 by a wide margin, was co-written by a woman (Hailey Gross) and also had a female lead co-designer (Emilia Schatz) among other major roles, and I might add very much feels like a game that was influenced by a female perspective. That game has also, by no coincidence, consistently enjoyed a large female player base from the outset, in contrast to most other AAA action-adventure games. It's my personal favorite video game of all time. (It's also the only AAA video game ever released to star a lesbian character in the lead role.)

I might add that Ethereal isn't entirely wrong when he says that women have, of late, begun to invest more in gaming than in the past. For example, 45% of PlayStation and Xbox console owners today are women, as are fully half of Nintendo Switch owners. As much seems to reflect major improvements in recent years in both the general quality and quantity of female representation in the medium, to illustrate which I would point out that Feminist Frequency's most recent report, which is from 2020, found that games previewed by publishers over the course of that summer were, for the first time ever, almost just as likely to have solo female protagonists (18% of the total) as they were to have solo male ones (23% of the total). And these characters are generally, and noticeably, far less sexualized than even just six, seven, and eight years ago, as those contentious feminist critiques of the industry from the 2010s appear to have taken hold and generated a positive industry response. More, and better, games about girls and women, as well as more inclusion of selectable female avatars in general, has translated into more interest in the medium from girls and women, creating a virtuous cycle wherein there's more incentive to make more games that appeal to them.

I'll go further, in fact, to point out that these changes have positively affected the attitudes of male gamers as well. Not only is sexual harassment less tolerated across most gaming spaces today, but furthermore the infamous "waifu" contests and hyper-sexualized female avatars that used to be pervasive -- even the rule -- on gaming forums have largely disappeared, making for a qualitatively less toxic and more welcoming environment. Likewise the famous "booth babes" of yesteryear's industry trade shows had largely vanished even before E3 did.

It's all good news, in other words, frankly. I used to gripe a lot about female representation in gaming and the general treatment of female gamers (as I'm sure you'll recall from years past), but not really so much anymore. The difference in female representation in this medium between one decade ago and today is night and day. It's absolutely $#@!ing night and day, seriously. And here we are now with this announcement (see the OP) that, for the first time ever, a heroine-centric gaming adventure has sold over 20 million copies. And the sequel is out today. I just picked it up.

[Ethereal]

The tired, age-old argument against appealing to female gamers is a circular one...

Except I never argued against appealing to female gamers. I merely explained why gaming companies spend more money on appealing to males, i.e., because males spend way more money on video games than females do. As soon as females started spending more money on games and demonstrating interest in them, the companies started investing more in games that appealed to females.

1) Men are the primary consumers of video games, so game companies focus on appealing to them.

Well, duh. That's how literally everything in the market works. Firms appeal to the people who are most likely to buy their products.

2) Women buy fewer games because they're made to appeal to men. Return from here to point 1.

Why do you need to believe that most females have some latent, unfulfilled desire to play video games? Why is it so hard for you to believe that women are generally not as interested in video games as men are?

But unlike that famous chicken-or-the-egg scenario, we know which one came first because the industry was created overwhelmingly by men.

Thanks for proving my point?

Men tend to think mostly about what other men will want to play. Keeping it that way is a choice. More women can be, and indeed are being, brought into the business precisely for reasons of companies wanting to reach an expanded market, increasingly. And what you choose to invest in a given game's development and marketing is, at the end of the day, a choice. No one is compelled to make the sexist choice.

Is it sexist for makeup companies to spend the vast majority of their ad revenue on appealing to women?

[IMPress Polly]

Why do you need to believe that most females have some latent, unfulfilled desire to play video games? Why is it so hard for you to believe that women are generally not as interested in video games as men are?

Because I'm not a sexist and because the trajectory of developments is proving me right. And also because I have more in common with "most females" than you do, to state the obvious.

Is it sexist for makeup companies to spend the vast majority of their ad revenue on appealing to women?

Yes.

[Peter1469]

Because I'm not a sexist. And also because I have more in common with "most females" than you do, to state the obvious.



Yes.

Why is it sexist for makeup companies to direct marketing to their primary customers?

[IMPress Polly]

Why is it sexist for makeup companies to direct marketing to their primary customers?

It mainly harms girls and women.

[Peter1469]

It mainly harms girls and women.

What is the solution?