Turkey’s leader opposes letting Finland, Sweden join NATO

[carolina73]

But the people they're killing off don't get to choose to leave? And, live?



Ukraine has a good share of mercenaries, as well. They use them against their own people.


Thank you for that globalist elite point of view. Have you been following Davos? It should be right up your alley.

LOL. You do not want to have a dishonest discussion. You have a dog in this fight. What is it? Family? Homeland?

[FindersKeepers]

LOL. You do not want to have a dishonest discussion. You have a dog in this fight. What is it? Family? Homeland?

You're right. I don't want to have a dishonest discussion. I want an honest one.

When have I ever taken part in a dishonest discussion?

The truth is that you've swallowed the leftist KoolAid. In a sense, I don't blame you--it's been well setup for you to do so. You've been led down the merry path.

There's a bigger price than you think for taking a global position on this--or on virtually anything. Biden just said Ukraine is a "global" problem. It's not. It's local, but they're going to make it global. Biden's laying the path now for an escalation of the war.

If you look back at my posts over the years, you'll find I haven't changed my position on Ukraine one bit. Only, you weren't interested until now so you weren't paying attention. Now, it's caught your attention but you're way behind on the lead-up.

I have no dog in this fight. Only a desire for honesty. My ancestors came from Bohemia and England long ago--some were here during the Revolutionary War.

I know you think you're right, and that's okay. Sometimes people don't see their errs until much later--if ever. Unlike your defense of Ukraine, I'm not defending Russia. I'm simply telling you it's not a matter of a bad guy invading a good guy. It's a matter of a bad guy invading a bad guy.

[Captdon]

It's a matter of one country invading another country.

The error is your belief Russia is invading as it pleases is inconsequential. You err in thinking that Russia is no longer the enemy. If so, NATO wastes more of our money than the Ukrain ever will.

[Peter1469]

The Swedes stepped in it (so far as Turkey is concerned).

Domestic politics have elevated a Kurdish parliamentarian, and that worsens Stockholm’s Turkey woes.

Sweden’s NATO Bid Is in Trouble - Defense One

Sweden’s and Finland’s NATO bids seemed like a mere formality. Nothing, it seemed, could stop the two Nordic neighbors from joining the alliance–indeed, they were even promised a fast lane to membership. But then Turkey proceeded to block the countries’ applications over concerns for their support of Kurds—a dig primarily directed at Sweden. And Sweden’s opposition parties organized a no-confidence vote against a bungling justice minister. In a remarkable turn of events, this caused Prime Minister Magdalena Andersson to make concessions to a Kurdish member of parliament. Sweden’s NATO application seems close to derailing, at least for the time being.

Before submitting their NATO applications, Sweden and Finland had surveyed alliance members; no one spoke up to object. Then they submitted their applications, and Turkey blocked them. “Unless Sweden and Finland clearly show that they will stand in solidarity with Turkey on fundamental issues, especially in the fight against terrorism, we will not approach these countries' NATO membership positively,” Recep Tayyip Erdogan told NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg last month. The Turkish president’s beef mostly seems to concern Sweden, which has long hosted Kurdish refugees (some of them of the militant variety). One former Peshmerga fighter, Amineh Kakabaveh, is even a member of Sweden’s parliament. Erdogan wants Sweden to curtail its links to Kurdish groups and end its suspension of arms exports to Turkey.

[Peter1469]

Update- Turkey makes NATO blink

Ankara’s threats to block Sweden's and Finland’s NATO memberships may yield some modest dividends, with the security alliance weighing whether to devote its last session during a summit in Madrid next week to “challenges” to its southern flank — meaning Turkey — and the fight against terrorism, Al-Monitor has learned.


The session, which sources say will most likely be added to the program, would provide Turkey with a platform to air its longstanding gripes over what it says is a lack of NATO solidarity over the threats it faces, including from a US-backed armed Kurdish group in Syria that Ankara says is closely linked to the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK). The PKK is waging an armed campaign for Kurdish autonomy inside Turkey and is designated as a terrorist organization by the United States and the European Union.


One of the sources said the session had been added to the program and would be called "Terrorism in All its Forms and Manifestations." Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu indicated that this was a done deal during a press conference with UK Foreign Secretary Liz Truss, saying he found it "significant" that the session would be taking place. He did not elaborate.


Turkey wants Sweden and Finland to sever all ties with the Syrian Kurdish groups and proscribe their activities within their own borders, one of several demands that it’s made in exchange for allowing both countries to join NATO. A meeting held in Brussels last week to break the deadlock yielded no concrete results.


Well-placed sources with knowledge of the ongoing negotiations led by NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg said that a second trilateral meeting between Turkey, Sweden and Finland could take place in Brussels, even as early as Friday, before the summit is held.


Haggling over the wording of a statement to be issued at the end of the proposed Brussels meeting is continuing apace, the sources said. Turkey insists that it contain references to the aforesaid Syrian Kurdish armed and political groups as “terrorists,” the sources said. Both have refused to yield on that point so far, not least because the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces are the US-led coalition’s top ally in Syria in the fight against the Islamic State.


“[Turkish President Recip Tayyip] Erdogan and his people find themselves encouraged by Stoltenberg’s appeasing stance and are asking for more without offering any commitment in exchange,” one of the sources speaking not for attribution told Al-Monitor.

[Peter1469]

Update:

Erdogan tells Sweden, NATO leaders that Turkey awaits steps for NATO bids

President Tayyip Erdogan told the heads of NATO and Sweden on Saturday that Nordic countries must take binding steps to address Turkey's concerns and overcome its opposition to their membership bids, Turkish state media reported.


Sweden and Finland applied for NATO membership in response to Russia's invasion of Ukraine.


But Ankara surprised allies in opposing the bids on grounds it says Stockholm and Helsinki support Kurdish militants like the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK), and they maintain arms embargos on Turkey. It wants reversals on both fronts.

[Peter1469]

Considering Sweden has a Kurdish PM, I don't think this is enough. Turkey calls all Kurds terrorists as a matter of state policy. Not just the PPK.

Sweden, seeking to win over Turkey, says it won't be haven for terrorists

Swedish Prime Minister Magdalena Andersson, seeking to win over Turkish support for her country's bid to join NATO, pledged on Monday not to let Sweden become "a safe haven for terrorists".


Turkey has blocked bids by Sweden and Finland to join the Western military alliance, accusing them of harbouring Ankara's foes including members of the banned Kurdish PKK militant group.
***

"Our stance regarding PKK is crystal clear. It is listed as a terror organisation in the European Union, and is regarded as such by Sweden," Andersson told reporters in Brussels after meeting NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg ahead of an alliance summit in Spain this week.

"Sweden is not and will not be a safe haven for terrorists. The relevant authorities work intensively in order to expel persons who could be a security threat - and there are a substantial number of cases which are currently processed," Andersson said.

[Peter1469]

I wonder what NATO had to pay Turkey for this:

Turkey drops opposition to Finland, Sweden joining NATO, paving way for alliance to grow

[Peter1469]

Even though Biden* appears to think Sweden (and Finland) have the OK to join NATO (he mentioned it yesterday), they don't. Turkey says Sweden isn't even half-way to getting Turk approval.

Turkey calls for more action, not words, from Sweden 

Turkey’s foreign minister urged Sweden Thursday to take concrete steps to tighten its leash on groups linked to terrorism, saying that Stockholm has not even come “halfway” through fulfilling a list of commitments to secure Ankara’s approval to join NATO.


“We of the steps taken by Sweden’s new government and we welcome them,” Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu said at a presser in Ankara with his Swedish counterpart Tobias Billstrom. But he hastened to add that there was little progress on areas crucial to Ankara, such as asset freezes and extradition of people linked to terror-related charges.


Billstrom's is the last in the chain of diplomatic visits from Sweden and Finland as well as one by NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg to persuade Ankara to give its nod to NATO’s Nordic expansion. Ending decades — in the case of Sweden, centuries — of neutrality, the two countries made a bid for NATO after Russia invaded Ukraine. The Turkish objections to starting negotiations with the two Nordic countries have been overcome with a trilateral memorandum of understanding signed at the NATO summit in June. With this document, Helsinki and Stockholm promised to address Ankara’s security concerns and lift their de facto arms embargo against Turkey. But Ankara has been dragging its feet on the final ratification of NATO enlargement, saying that the two countries, particularly Sweden, have a long way to go to implement the three-page MoU.

[Peter1469]

Turkey still says no to Sweden. Not NATO for them. Seems like Finland will get the nod.

The Biden administration has proposed selling F-16 fighter jets to Turkey, in return, unofficially, and not as a condition, for Ankara approving Sweden’s membership bid for NATO.


If that’s not the official deal, it is the expectation in Washington. Erdogan is at ease, however, with high-stakes diplomacy. He is flashing no sign that he buys into the linkage, at least not now, and certainly not before the election.
“The two issues are separate and are running their own course,” said Cavusoglu on Wednesday, adding that Turkey will consider the membership bids of both Finland and Sweden in the steps laid out in the trilateral memorandum from June 2022, such as cracking down on anti-Turkish militant groups, extraditing dozens of people and lifting all bans on arms sales to Turkey.


All NATO member parliaments must approve the membership bids, and Turkey is the last holdout.


While Ankara is expected to approve Finland’s request, Cavusoglu said, “Sweden is only at the beginning of the road” in meeting the conditions in the memorandum.