Everyone believes in god

[Chris]

He didn't say where he got that definition. I wonder if it was his own?

He clarifies:

1:42
that's your choice your choice is do you
1:46
believe in a god who started a world and
1:48
doesn't even know it
1:52
or do you believe that god who started
1:54
the world
1:56
did it intentionally with a plan


So, no, it's an age-old argument, the teleological argument, teleo- having to do with purpose, end, goal.

[Cotton1]

Why do some find it necessary to assign everyone a god being?

That's very profound.

The "God" argument assumes that everyone has to believe or not believe in a "God".

To believe is to believe

To "not" believe is to believe there is a God not to believe in.

To be agnostic is validating the existence of the question itself.

[Cotton1]

The first question to ask is "What is God?"

Science says that millions of years ago subatomic particles got together in such a way that life was formed. If that is your belief, then that is your god.

Religion says that those subatomic particles were put together to form life by someone who knew what he was doing. That was God.

Either your god is creation by accident, or your God is creation by intent.

There is no such thing as an atheist.

Rabbi Mannis Friedman tells us this in a 26 minute video. I'm not Jewish, but .... there were plenty of gems to be found in this way of looking at God that's just a little bit different than usual.

1. With all due respect , you are assuming everyone has a "God"

2. And....by extension assuming the "God" had to be created by accident or intent

3. If you believe in #1 you have to add a third option to #2.

That option would be the existence of a divine need to create a God which would suggest not only divinity in a creation of God but that there would be at least one more God, above the God you speak of .

One that previously existed .....

[Chris]

1. With all due respect , you are assuming everyone has a "God"

2. And....by extension assuming the "God" had to be created by accident or intent

3. If you believe in #1 you have to add a third option to #2.

That option would be the existence of a divine need to create a God which would suggest not only divinity in a creation of God but that there would be at least one more God, above the God you speak of .

One that previously existed .....

The problem with that is that then all things are contingent. Contingent things, prior to causation, do not exist. If all things are contingent, then there must be a time when no things existed, that is, nothing existed. But then there'd be nothing to bring things into existence. We, the world, the universe would not exist. Therefore, there must be some necessary cause whose non-existence is impossible. That cause is God.

That is a statement of the Cosmological Argument argued by Plato and Aristotle and, most famously, by Thomas Aquinas.

It's part of the rabbi's argument, but not the most important part.

[MisterVeritis]

The problem with that is that then all things are contingent. Contingent things, prior to causation, do not exist. If all things are contingent, then there must be a time when no things existed, that is, nothing existed. But then there'd be nothing to bring things into existence. We, the world, the universe would not exist. Therefore, there must be some necessary cause whose non-existence is impossible. That cause is God.

That is a statement of the Cosmological Argument argued by Plato and Aristotle and, most famously, by Thomas Aquinas.

It's part of the rabbi's argument, but not the most important part.

Even arguments for god support the reasonable idea that the something that exists now came from the something that existed then. If there was ever a point where nothing existed that point would continue.

[Chris]

Even arguments for god support the reasonable idea that the something that exists now came from the something that existed then. If there was ever a point where nothing existed that point would continue.

Reasonable but, lacking evidence, unable to test or falsify, lie outside the realm of science.

[MisterVeritis]

Reasonable but, lacking evidence, unable to test or falsify, lie outside the realm of science.

True. But is it relevant? Has something ever arisen from nothing that we know of? Is nothing possible?

[Chris]

True. But is it relevant? Has something ever arisen from nothing that we know of? Is nothing possible?

Rather than repeat we should try to add depth or breath to the discussion.

Doing so, let's assume that the first cause was God or something like quantum fluctuations. Both comply with the OP video rabbi's opening definition:

1:09
because god means the original
1:12
substance from which everything else
1:15
evolved

And the significance is found in his clarification:

1:42
that's your choice your choice is do you
1:46
believe in a god who started a world and
1:48
doesn't even know it
1:52
or do you believe that god who started
1:54
the world
1:56
did it intentionally with a plan

[Cotton1]

The problem with that is that then all things are contingent. Contingent things, prior to causation, do not exist. If all things are contingent, then there must be a time when no things existed, that is, nothing existed. But then there'd be nothing to bring things into existence. We, the world, the universe would not exist. Therefore, there must be some necessary cause whose non-existence is impossible. That cause is God.

That is a statement of the Cosmological Argument argued by Plato and Aristotle and, most famously, by Thomas Aquinas.

It's part of the rabbi's argument, but not the most important part.

With all due respect to Aristotle and Plato, the above statement suggests there has to be "causation" and that only "God" could provide the causation if said causation were indeed, necessary.


In addition , it taps into my curious side by asking

Who is Thomas Aquinas?

[Cotton1]

True. But is it relevant? Has something ever arisen from nothing that we know of? Is nothing possible?

If you ever looked into a brain scan of my first wife you would indeed know , "nothing" is possible