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Thread: A Roe V Wade sidebar

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    A Roe V Wade sidebar

    I have spent some time reading the 14th today and do not see support there for Roe v Wade. It's weak at best, non-existent at worst. I heard ( have not had time to fact check it), but heard that RBG knew that.
    To me the statement that a "citizen cannot be deprived on liberty without due process" (Paraphrased) is not only weak but could abortion law be considered due process and/or then the due process of having violated that law? I certainly didn't see much on privacy.
    I am in favor of legal abortion up to 20 weeks, no exceptions. However, it does look to me like the SC ruling (2022) is correct that that the ruling in 1973 not justified. Two thoughts on that.
    1) Does our current Justice system give too much weight to legal precedent? According to the SC court an incorrect legal precedent has stood as the law of the land for nearly half a century. In part because it was "settled law"
    2) In a weird way could the justices from 1973 have prevented abortion access from becoming the law of the land, via an amendment? That would have never occurred in 1973 nor in the past decade. But there were times in-between when it may have. But who wrights Amendments for settled law?

    If ya got the time look over the 14th and get back with your thoughts

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    I believe the liberal argument is this: (a) A general right to privacy exists in the penumbras of the Bill of Rights. (b) A right to abortion is found under a right to privacy. (c) Therefore, by substantive due process (in the 14th), abortion is protected.

    The court's argument in Dobbs is basically that no right to abortion can be found in the Constitution, traditional law, or the history of ordered liberty. Therefore the liberal premise (b) is false and thus (c) fails. Moreover, the general right to privacy protects life, liberty, and property but aborting babies does not.
    The trouble with our Liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. -- Ronald Reagan

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    The right to privacy would argue that the unborn have no right to life, liberty, ect....that the act of abortion has nothing but personal consequence and that makes no sense.

    However this ruling does not in any way ban abortion, it is now a 10th Amendment issue and extreme cases like rape will have choices and I support that. Travel in the first months of conception is no unreasonable burden.
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    I never understood the Right to Privacy angle to legitimize this subject anyways. In the end the argument failed. Some 63 million dead kids later.
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    Quote Originally Posted by carolina73 View Post
    I never understood the Right to Privacy angle to legitimize this subject anyways. In the end the argument failed. Some 63 million dead kids later.
    It never made a lick of sense.
    The trouble with our Liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. -- Ronald Reagan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    The court's argument in Dobbs is basically that no right to abortion can be found in the Constitution, traditional law, or the history of ordered liberty. Therefore the liberal premise (b) is false and thus (c) fails. Moreover, the general right to privacy protects life, liberty, and property but aborting babies does not.
    You might as well argue that you have the right to privacy while you murder your three year old child.

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    What, we don't have the right to kill someone in private?
    ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ


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    Quote Originally Posted by donttread View Post
    I have spent some time reading the 14th today and do not see support there for Roe v Wade. It's weak at best, non-existent at worst. I heard ( have not had time to fact check it), but heard that RBG knew that.
    To me the statement that a "citizen cannot be deprived on liberty without due process" (Paraphrased) is not only weak but could abortion law be considered due process and/or then the due process of having violated that law? I certainly didn't see much on privacy.
    I am in favor of legal abortion up to 20 weeks, no exceptions. However, it does look to me like the SC ruling (2022) is correct that that the ruling in 1973 not justified. Two thoughts on that.
    1) Does our current Justice system give too much weight to legal precedent? According to the SC court an incorrect legal precedent has stood as the law of the land for nearly half a century. In part because it was "settled law"
    2) In a weird way could the justices from 1973 have prevented abortion access from becoming the law of the land, via an amendment? That would have never occurred in 1973 nor in the past decade. But there were times in-between when it may have. But who wrights Amendments for settled law?

    If ya got the time look over the 14th and get back with your thoughts
    I interpret the 14th exactly as you do -- I don't see the support for Roe. Who knows? Maybe an amendment such as you mention will be in the future. I can see that happening.

    My feelings are similar to yours--a little more strict--in that I only support abortion within the first 12 weeks. But, we're still on the same page. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
    ""A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul" ~George Bernard Shaw

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    Right to Privacy
    I've always questioned that. We all expect a certain level of privacy in our lives and personal practices.
    There is none. The Right to Privacy is only implied, but not encoded.
    You cannot tell any law enforcement officer or any legal representative to mind their own business. Apparently, your business is their business.
    If they want to know anything about you that doesn't pop up on their screen, they will ask and if you don't answer, there is fallout.
    Right to Privacy.......................there is none
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    I believe the liberal argument is this: (a) A general right to privacy exists in the penumbras of the Bill of Rights. (b) A right to abortion is found under a right to privacy. (c) Therefore, by substantive due process (in the 14th), abortion is protected.

    The court's argument in Dobbs is basically that no right to abortion can be found in the Constitution, traditional law, or the history of ordered liberty. Therefore the liberal premise (b) is false and thus (c) fails. Moreover, the general right to privacy protects life, liberty, and property but aborting babies does not.
    Excellent explanation @Chris

    Also Even in 1868 when the 14th was written abortions were probably done hit and miss with bitter herbs and not discussed thereafter.
    Last edited by donttread; 06-29-2022 at 07:33 PM.

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