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Thread: Do ‘bouncing universes’ have a beginning?

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    Do ‘bouncing universes’ have a beginning?

    And thus we have something from nothing.

    Do ‘bouncing universes’ have a beginning?

    In trying to understand the nature of the cosmos, some theorists propose that the universe expands and contracts in endless cycles.

    Because this behavior is hypothesized to be perpetual, the universe should have no beginning and no end — only eternal cycles of growing and shrinking that extend forever into the future, and forever into the past.

    ...But a new study by University at Buffalo physicists Will Kinney and Nina Stein highlights one way that cyclic or “bouncing” cosmologies fall flat.

    The research shows that the latest version of this theory — a cyclic model that resolves long-standing concerns about entropy — introduces a new problem (or rather, returns to an old one). Cyclic universes described under this model must have a beginning, Kinney and Stein conclude.

    ...“There are a lot of reasons to be curious about the early universe, but I think my favorite is the natural human tendency to want to know what came before,” says Stein, a UB PhD student in physics, regarding the importance of such research. “Across cultures and histories, humans have told stories about creation, about ‘in the beginning.’ We always want to know where we came from.”

    ...“Unfortunately, it’s been known for almost 100 years that these cyclic models don’t work because disorder, or entropy, builds up in the universe over time, so each cycle is different from the last one. It’s not truly cyclic,” Kinney says. “A recent cyclic model gets around this entropy build-up problem by proposing that the universe expands a whole bunch with each cycle, diluting the entropy. You stretch everything out to get rid of cosmic structures such as black holes, which returns the universe to its original homogenous state before another bounce begins.”

    “But,” he adds, “long story short, we showed that in solving the entropy problem, you create a situation where the universe had to have a beginning. Our proof shows in general that any cyclic model which removes entropy by expansion must have a beginning.”

    “The idea that there was a point in time before which there was nothing, no time, bothers us, and we want to know what there was before that — scientists included,” Stein says. “But as far as we can tell, in models that address entropy, there must have been a ‘beginning.’ There is a point for which there is no answer to the question, ‘What came before that?’ ”

    And, of course, there are further research questions, Kinney says: “Our proof does not apply to a cyclic model proposed by Roger Penrose, in which the universe expands infinitely in each cycle. We're working on that one.”
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    Let me light up another joint and come up with a new theory.
    Should we order a pizza?

    Since the universe is infinite then how to you measure it? Nothing will ever reach the end even theoretically.
    The Universe by definition is all space and time. The word and its definition was basically created to replace the word everything. So at the end of everything is nothing but nothing is empty space and space is not nothing.
    Let's go Brandon !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by carolina73 View Post
    Let me light up another joint and come up with a new theory.
    Should we order a pizza?

    Since the universe is infinite then how to you measure it? Nothing will ever reach the end even theoretically.
    The Universe by definition is all space and time. The word and its definition was basically created to replace the word everything. So at the end of everything is nothing but nothing is empty space and space is not nothing.
    Perhaps other universes are in separate dimensions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    Perhaps other universes are in separate dimensions.
    But the Universe by definition is ALL space and time.
    Let's go Brandon !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by carolina73 View Post
    But the Universe by definition is ALL space and time.
    Isn't space the first three dimensions? (x, y, and z axis) and the 4th dimension time. Scientists think there are at least 6 other dimensions (I have heard up to 12 total).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    Isn't space the first three dimensions? (x, y, and z axis) and the 4th dimension time. Scientists think there are at least 6 other dimensions (I have heard up to 12 total).
    Yes.

    The extra dimensions are a bit sketchy IMHO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    Perhaps other universes are in separate dimensions.
    Quite likely, or at least in other timelines.
    "Buy a man eat fish, the day, teach a man to a life time! "
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    you're on the train and they say 'PORTAL BRIDGE' you know you better make other plans."
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    Quote Originally Posted by LWW View Post
    Quite likely, or at least in other timelines.
    The universe is defined as all space and time. Your alternates universe cannot exist.
    Let's go Brandon !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by carolina73 View Post
    The universe is defined as all space and time. Your alternates universe cannot exist.
    A lot of science, especially physics, is purely speculative and takes an approach of what if we assume this or that, what are the implications
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    Quote Originally Posted by carolina73 View Post
    Let me light up another joint and come up with a new theory.
    Should we order a pizza?

    Since the universe is infinite then how to you measure it? Nothing will ever reach the end even theoretically.
    The Universe by definition is all space and time. The word and its definition was basically created to replace the word everything. So at the end of everything is nothing but nothing is empty space and space is not nothing.

    "The Universe by definition is all space and time." Or more properly known space and time. Thus the question about the beginning of the known universe is a question about the beginning of known space and time.

    The Big Bang

    ...According to most astrophysicists, all the matter found in the universe today -- including the matter in people, plants, animals, the earth, stars, and galaxies -- was created at the very first moment of time, thought to be about 13 billion years ago.

    The universe began, scientists believe, with every speck of its energy jammed into a very tiny point. This extremely dense point exploded with unimaginable force, creating matter and propelling it outward to make the billions of galaxies of our vast universe. Astrophysicists dubbed this titanic explosion the Big Bang....
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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