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Thread: Leapfrogging the Enlightenment

  1. #11
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    Chris's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standing Wolf View Post
    Subjecting every issue through scrutiny and analysis of what they mean to "various political ideologies" may also obscure the fact that the issue isn't nearly as complicated as some would have it appear. Many professions have a vested interest in making everything more complex and difficult than they need to be, in order to convince people that their insight is necessary to understanding - and professional politicians, along with political scholars and philosophers, often fall into that category.
    I guess then we should take it as you are one with no interest in the source of his thinking or interest in distinguishing different ideologies and that you have really nothing to contribute to this discussion. Some of us do take interest in the history of ideas.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    I guess then we should take it as you are one with no interest in the source of his thinking or interest in distinguishing different ideologies and that you have really nothing to contribute to this discussion. Some of us do take interest in the history of ideas.
    I won't follow your lead and make this personal, Chris, although we both know that I very well could do so if I were willing to sink to that level.

    Here you've conflated, I believe out of pique more than genuine confusion, having, as you put it "...no interest in the source of his thinking...", etc., with a wholly rational resistance to the idea that every view on every issue must be categorized as supporting or refuting a political ideology. As an academic exercise there's nothing wrong with it; as a way of judging or labeling individuals in the present day and in the real world, it can be counterproductive and a distraction.

    I understood the point of the passage quoted in the OP, and I believe the point that I made in my first response to it - that, in its simplest terms, for a society to base its policies on some potentially flawed perception of the past (and "how great it was") may not be the wisest course - was a valid one.
    Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.” - Robert E. Howard

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    Quote Originally Posted by Standing Wolf View Post
    I won't follow your lead and make this personal, Chris, although we both know that I very well could do so if I were willing to sink to that level.

    Here you've conflated, I believe out of pique more than genuine confusion, having, as you put it "...no interest in the source of his thinking...", etc., with a wholly rational resistance to the idea that every view on every issue must be categorized as supporting or refuting a political ideology. As an academic exercise there's nothing wrong with it; as a way of judging or labeling individuals in the present day and in the real world, it can be counterproductive and a distraction.

    I understood the point of the passage quoted in the OP, and I believe the point that I made in my first response to it - that, in its simplest terms, for a society to base its policies on some potentially flawed perception of the past (and "how great it was") may not be the wisest course - was a valid one.

    There was nothing personal implied other than you're taking it so. If you don't have interest in the history of ideas, so be it, not everyone does.

    Moreover, the purpose of aligning or categorizing political ideas with their origins is also not to attack the person but the very ideas themselves. Idea A is much like earlier idea B and look where idea B led to is the sort of thing I'm interested in.

    I understood the point of the passage quoted in the OP, and I believe the point that I made in my first response to it - that, in its simplest terms, for a society to base its policies on some potentially flawed perception of the past (and "how great it was") may not be the wisest course - was a valid one.
    Nice opinion but wholly without substance as it pertains to the OP. I mean, surely, for one or a society to base policies on false perceptions is unwise, but you've done nothing to show reactionary Romantics wrong about the Enlightenment.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Standing Wolf View Post
    As for the present day, I sometimes hear critics of self-identified progressives attribute that "heaven on Earth" view to them, but I don't hear it from the progressives themselves. What I mostly hear - not only from progressives, but from liberals, conservatives and pretty much everyone else - boils down to "What I want is important, and what you want isn't". I haven't put it to the test, but I'm guessing that, if closely analyzed, a great number of today's most contentious issues and controversies would come down to that.
    Or, "I am in charge, you are not. Sit down and shut up."
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.


    I pledge allegiance to the Constitution as written and understood by this nation's founders, and to the Republic it created, an indivisible union of sovereign States, with liberty and justice for all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Standing Wolf View Post
    Subjecting every issue through scrutiny and analysis of what they mean to "various political ideologies" may also obscure the fact that the issue isn't nearly as complicated as some would have it appear. Many professions have a vested interest in making everything more complex and difficult than they need to be, in order to convince people that their insight is necessary to understanding - and professional politicians, along with political scholars and philosophers, often fall into that category.
    Simple is good.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.


    I pledge allegiance to the Constitution as written and understood by this nation's founders, and to the Republic it created, an indivisible union of sovereign States, with liberty and justice for all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    Simple is good.
    Simple minds certainly prefer it that way. Totalitarians too.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    Simple is good.
    There's a quote often attributed to Einstein, although I don't think he actually said or wrote it. It goes something like, "If you can't explain it to a six-year-old child, you don't understand it yourself".
    Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.” - Robert E. Howard

    "Only a rank degenerate would drive 1,500 miles across Texas and not eat a chicken fried steak." - Larry McMurtry

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    Simple minds certainly prefer it that way. Totalitarians too.
    It takes intellect to simplify correctly.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.


    I pledge allegiance to the Constitution as written and understood by this nation's founders, and to the Republic it created, an indivisible union of sovereign States, with liberty and justice for all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    Simple minds certainly prefer it that way. Totalitarians too.
    Too great a reliance on the words and thoughts of others can serve as a way to avoid doing any serious thinking of one's own.
    Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.” - Robert E. Howard

    "Only a rank degenerate would drive 1,500 miles across Texas and not eat a chicken fried steak." - Larry McMurtry

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    Quote Originally Posted by Standing Wolf View Post
    There's a quote often attributed to Einstein, although I don't think he actually said or wrote it. It goes something like, "If you can't explain it to a six-year-old child, you don't understand it yourself".
    I like it. If I cannot draw a picture of it I am unlikely to invest money in it.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.


    I pledge allegiance to the Constitution as written and understood by this nation's founders, and to the Republic it created, an indivisible union of sovereign States, with liberty and justice for all.

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