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Thread: Declassifying Documents

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    RMNIXON's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Booman View Post
    This explains why the government let him keep them for 18 months.
    And as I understand it the President is not required to file proofs with Bureaucrats under his authority. That will not hold up in court and why the real legal issue is who retains legal custody the documents in question not the classification. That is a Left Media driven Red Hearing to stir up the TDS crowd and I predict it goes nowhere in the legal system.
    My Revenge will be Success! - Donald J Trump

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Booman View Post
    Do you do birthday parties?

    I could easily find and post an entire catalog of regulations about how to handle and declassify documents that are part of a massive government and military bureaucracy. Enough to make your head spin and not at all relevant to the matter at hand.

    Unless you think the country is run by lifetime Bureaucrat Dictators and not the President who has ultimate authority over all of them. In fact they don't even exists as government entities without authority of the Offoce of the President and the funding authority of the Congress.

    Not one of these pencil pushers even has a job!
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardMZhlubb View Post
    There’s no evidence that Trump declassified all of the documents he took from the White House. And none of the three statutes cited in the warrant application require that the documents involved be classified. If Trump had documents that contained information about the national defense that could be used by a foreign power to harm the US (regardless of classification status) and failed to return them on request, he committed a felony punishable by up to ten years in prison.
    It is Trump's word against no one's. They cannot prove he did not declassify them.
    Let's go Brandon !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedStone7476
    This problem exists because a “Trump declassified” document is NOT a “properly declassified” document. That is, when Trump declassified a document, he did NOT follow the proper procedure for doing so. Bottom line: Trump was haphazard and sloppy when he declassified documents. (It’s as if he thought that he could magically declassify documents because he was “president”.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Article 2
    The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America.
    The president pretty much has the power to classify or declassify whatever he likes. Whether you think he is careful in the exercise of his powers is a separate question. There is nothing magical about it. All executive authority resides in the president of the United States.
    Quote Originally Posted by RedStone7476
    Here’s reality: The FBI found that Hillary did NOT knowingly have classified documents on her email server, because the documents sent to her did not have classification markings on them; and the FBI cleared her of any wrongdoing.
    The FBI is not a court, finder of law, or finder of fact. The fact is that she did have classified information on her server, and her server was in fact hacked.
    Quote Originally Posted by RedStone7476
    * Trump took a LARGE NUMBER of classified documents to Mar-a-Lago which is NOT a secure location for those documents.
    That's a matter of opinion. It is under 24-hour Secret Service protection.
    Quote Originally Posted by RedStone7476
    Thus, he put our national security at risk.
    That's a conclusion of fact not in evidence. Most of what is classified is basically BS.
    Quote Originally Posted by RedStone7476
    * Hillary NEVER took classified documents to her home. (She’s not a moron!)
    They were on her email server. They were also cc'd to Huma Abedin, who had them on a laptop in her home.
    Quote Originally Posted by RedStone7476
    * Bottom line: Trump did FAR WORSE than Hillary. Trump’s actions put our national security at risk, but Hillary’s actions did NOT.
    This is objectively wrong. Hillary Clinton's email server was in fact hacked. Hillary Email Server Hacked After Security Features Temporarily Disabled
    Quote Originally Posted by RedStone7476
    (Question: Why aren’t Trump’s supporters chanting “lock him up“? Maybe it’s because they have a double standard. Or maybe it’s because they only believe what Trump tells them to believe.)
    Hillary Clinton had a well-earned reputation for shady practices dating back to the Rose Law firm. For example, she did not comply with a subpoena for her billing records, which were found after the investigation mysteriously in the residence of the White House--not the Rose Law firm. The Clintons also used the Clinton Foundation to raise money from Russian oligarchs, among others, and used the funds to buy influence. Hillary put out the phony Russian dossier trying to tie Trump to the Russians, while completely ignoring the fact that she and her husband (making $500k a speech in Moscow) had plenty of ties to Russia. Hillary (and ultimately Obama) didn't provide adequate security to Ambassador Stephens in Libya, ultimately getting him killed. It was in looking for her email correspondence that it was discovered that Clinton ran an email server in her house in Chappaqua, NY.
    Quote Originally Posted by RedStone7476
    Hopefully, the planned “damage assessment” will definitively answer those questions. (It should be noted by all Trump-Chumps that NO damage assessment was warranted for Hillary’s email server.)
    That's because the FBI helped cover it up.
    Quote Originally Posted by RedStone7476
    > When I was in the military, I worked with classified documents. If I had taken one of those documents to my dorm room, I would have been punished. Apparently, the Radical Right Republicans have a double standard on this issue; one standard for Trump, and another standard for everyone else. That is: “defend Trump and attack those who did nothing wrong” for you-know-who; and “punishment” for the rest of us.
    When you are in the military, you are subordinate to the chain of command, which starts with the president. There is most definitely a different standard for presidents than for military personnel.
    Quote Originally Posted by RedStone7476
    In conclusion: In addition to falsely claiming that the FBI’s action was unnecessary, Trump and his Chumps are also falsely claiming that the action was illegal and political.
    The FBI's action was done for political reasons. That much is clear. They wouldn't wait 18 months if they thought there was some serious national security threat. They waited until just before the midterms, because they thought it might have an effect on the election.
    Quote Originally Posted by RedStone7476
    They are ignoring the fact that Trump did NOT properly declassify the documents, and thus it was illegal for him to store them at Mar-a-Lago.
    Presidents are bound by the constitution, not procedural rules that unelected bureaucrats are required to follow.
    Quote Originally Posted by RedStone7476
    And they are ignoring the fact that Trump was repeatedly asked to return the documents to their rightful owners for well over a year.
    Which should tell you right away that there was no significant national security threat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardMZhlubb View Post
    You guys need to make up your minds. You complain that DOJ should have given Trump more time to comply voluntarily, and then when it’s pointed out that they gave him multiple chances to comply and he kept withholding documents, you blame DOJ for taking too long before going in and taking the documents back.
    They told him to hold on to the documents. Stop being Rachel Maddow on the internets.





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    Quote Originally Posted by RMNIXON View Post
    And as I understand it the President is not required to file proofs with Bureaucrats under his authority. That will not hold up in court and why the real legal issue is who retains legal custody the documents in question not the classification. That is a Left Media driven Red Hearing to stir up the TDS crowd and I predict it goes nowhere in the legal system.
    Dick doesn't care. He's lost the plot.





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    MisterVeritis's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedStone7476 View Post
    Trump and a LARGE number of Republicans in our government (AKA the Radical Right Republicans; AKA the Trump-Chumps; AKA the Coup-Coup Bunch) have said that we did NOT have to worry about the government documents at Mar-a-Lago, because those documents were NOT classified; and they were not classified because Trump declassified them; and thus the FBI’s action to remove those documents from Mar-a-Lago was NOT necessary.

    ● Here’s what the Trump-Chumps don’t tell you (maybe because they don’t want you to know, or maybe because THEY don’t know):

    1 - A classified document may contain “potentially harmful” information. That is, it may contain formation that could harm our nation, if it was seen by the wrong people. That is: if it was seen by the wrong people, that information could compromise our methods for gathering intelligence; and/or it could cause our allies to become reluctant to share intelligence with us; and/or it could get our people killed; and/or it could get our friends killed; and/or it could put our national security at risk; and/or it could cause other things to happen that would harm our nation.

    2 - When Trump declassified a document containing “potentially harmful” information, the resulting “Trump declassified” document contained the SAME “potentially harmful” information that was in the document before he declassified it. Bottom line: A “Trump declassified” document could contain information that could harm our nation, if it was seen by the wrong people. OBVIOUSLY, there is a problem with “Trump declassified” documents. And OBVIOUSLY, it is a MAJOR problem.

    This problem exists because a “Trump declassified” document is NOT a “properly declassified” document. That is, when Trump declassified a document, he did NOT follow the proper procedure for doing so. Bottom line: Trump was haphazard and sloppy when he declassified documents. (It’s as if he thought that he could magically declassify documents because he was “president”.)

    The following is the proper procedure to declassify a document: > Our intelligence people should review the document to see if it contains “potentially harmful” information. > If the document contains “potentially harmful” information, ALL of that information should be redacted. > All classification markings should be removed from the document. > The aforementioned process should be officially documented. > At that point, the document can be deemed as properly declassified.

    It should be no surprise to anyone that Trump did NOT follow the proper procedure for declassifying documents. As we ALL know, he doesn’t like to follow rules. That is, he prefers to ignore rules, just like he prefers to ignore our laws and our Constitution. (When he was in office, he was a self-proclaimed “law-and-order president”. But he was ACTUALLY a “lawless-law-and-order president”. And now, he is a “lawless-law-and-order ex-president.)

    ● Classified documents:

    > As for classified documents and Obama: Trump said that Obama did the same thing as he did. Here’s reality: Obama did NOT store his classified documents in his house. (He’s not a moron!) Obama’s classified documents are being properly and legally stored in NARA facilities.

    > As for classified documents and Hillary: The Trump-Chumps like to trash Hillary and claim that she had classified documents on her private email server. Here’s reality: The FBI found that Hillary did NOT knowingly have classified documents on her email server, because the documents sent to her did not have classification markings on them; and the FBI cleared her of any wrongdoing. (During his first run for President, Trump went berserk over Hillary’s email server. And he encouraged his supporters to chant “lock her up”.)

    > As for classified documents and Trump:
    * Trump took a LARGE NUMBER of classified documents to Mar-a-Lago which is NOT a secure location for those documents. Thus, he put our national security at risk.
    * When the government repeatedly asked him to return the classified documents, Trump gave the government the runaround. Finally, after he did that for well over a year, the DOJ took legal action to get the FBI involved.
    * Hillary NEVER took classified documents to her home. (She’s not a moron!)
    * Bottom line: Trump did FAR WORSE than Hillary. Trump’s actions put our national security at risk, but Hillary’s actions did NOT. (Question: Why aren’t Trump’s supporters chanting “lock him up“? Maybe it’s because they have a double standard. Or maybe it’s because they only believe what Trump tells them to believe.)

    And what did Trump do with the classified documents while they were at Mar-a-Lago? That is: > Did he alter them? > Did he show them to his family, his friends, his employees, and his hotel patrons, while he was bragging about himself? > Did he show them to people (foreign or domestic) to get them to like him? (For example: Did he show them to his hero, Putin (a mass murderer), in order to get Putin to like him?) > Did he sell them to people (foreign or domestic) for his personal gain? (For example: A Trump hotel in Moscow?) > Did he copy them; and if so, where are the copies? > Did he hide some of them in other locations, and they are still at Mar-a-Lago? > Did he hide some of them outside of Mar-a-Lago? > Did he plan to use them to blackmail our government and/or US allies? > Was he going to use them in a way that would have been a betrayal to our nation? (One prominent veteran’s group refers to him as “traitor Trump”.)

    Hopefully, the planned “damage assessment” will definitively answer those questions. (It should be noted by all Trump-Chumps that NO damage assessment was warranted for Hillary’s email server.)

    > When I was in the military, I worked with classified documents. If I had taken one of those documents to my dorm room, I would have been punished. Apparently, the Radical Right Republicans have a double standard on this issue; one standard for Trump, and another standard for everyone else. That is: “defend Trump and attack those who did nothing wrong” for you-know-who; and “punishment” for the rest of us.

    ● In conclusion: In addition to falsely claiming that the FBI’s action was unnecessary, Trump and his Chumps are also falsely claiming that the action was illegal and political. They are ignoring the fact that Trump did NOT properly declassify the documents, and thus it was illegal for him to store them at Mar-a-Lago. And they are ignoring the fact that Trump was repeatedly asked to return the documents to their rightful owners for well over a year. Furthermore, Trump and his Chumps are attacking the FBI, in an effort to put the lives of FBI agents at risk. Trump and his Chumps are frauds, they are irresponsible, and they are dangerous. (Does the word “lowlifes” come to mind?)
    That was quite a pantload.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.


    I pledge allegiance to the Constitution as written and understood by this nation's founders, and to the Republic it created, an indivisible union of sovereign States, with liberty and justice for all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardMZhlubb View Post
    There’s no evidence that Trump declassified all of the documents he took from the White House. And none of the three statutes cited in the warrant application require that the documents involved be classified. If Trump had documents that contained information about the national defense that could be used by a foreign power to harm the US (regardless of classification status) and failed to return them on request, he committed a felony punishable by up to ten years in prison.
    You err.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.


    I pledge allegiance to the Constitution as written and understood by this nation's founders, and to the Republic it created, an indivisible union of sovereign States, with liberty and justice for all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    You err.
    Here are the statutes identified in the search warrant: 18 USC 793, 1519, and 2071. All three identify felonies for the possession and refusal to return or obstruction of efforts to locate certain government records, regardless of classification. It is irrelevant whether Trump had declassified anything the FBI removed from Mar-a-lago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardMZhlubb View Post
    Here are the statutes identified in the search warrant: 18 USC 793, 1519, and 2071. All three identify felonies for the possession and refusal to return or obstruction of efforts to locate certain government records, regardless of classification. It is irrelevant whether Trump had declassified anything the FBI removed from Mar-a-lago.
    None of them are relevant. The President is in his own category. He has absolute authority to declassify information in any way he chooses.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.


    I pledge allegiance to the Constitution as written and understood by this nation's founders, and to the Republic it created, an indivisible union of sovereign States, with liberty and justice for all.

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