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Thread: UC Berkeley Gender ID Debate

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    UC Berkeley Gender ID Debate

    You know why the gender identity apologists generally prefer to censor, threaten, and pathologize those of us who disagree with their perspective rather than discussing the matter? You know why they don't want to have a debate? Because THIS is what a debate on the topic of transgender politics looks like:



    It's worth stressing that this recent debate, which asks the participants whether trans-women should be treated the same as biological women for all legal purposes and why or why not, mind you was held by the University of California at Berkeley, which is an institution not exactly known for either attracting or promoting conservative attitudes. Nevertheless, you can see, and hear, the results, and in the unlikely event that the distribution of audience applause and the fact that one of the debaters himself changes his position in a certain direction doesn't make the matter clear, you can check out the the comments section at the link to help ya a little further.

    For my own part, I agree unequivocally with the molecular geneticist here and share her strength of conviction, and I suspect you will too after you view this 18-minute debate that's really not much of a debate.
    Last edited by IMPress Polly; 09-09-2022 at 06:30 AM.

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    Best comment of the video.

    "Women have misogynized themselves to the point where man's comfort takes precedence over women's safety."

    Women must stand up and insist on having their private spaces independent of males. There's no good reason to have a biological male in a woman's locker room or housed with women in a woman's prison.
    ""A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul" ~George Bernard Shaw

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    Quote Originally Posted by IMPress Polly View Post
    You know why the gender identity apologists generally prefer to censor, threaten, and pathologize those of us who disagree with their perspective rather than discussing the matter? You know why they don't want to have a debate? Because THIS is what a debate on the topic of transgender politics looks like:



    It's worth stressing that this recent debate, which asks the participants whether trans-women should be treated the same as biological women for all legal purposes and why or why not, mind you was held by the University of California at Berkeley, which is an institution not exactly known for either attracting or promoting conservative attitudes. Nevertheless, you can see, and hear, the results, and in the unlikely event that the distribution of audience applause and the fact that one of the debaters himself changes his position in a certain direction doesn't make the matter clear, you can check out the the comments section at the link to help ya a little further.

    For my own part, I agree unequivocally with the molecular geneticist here and share her strength of conviction, and I suspect you will too after you view this 18-minute debate that's really not much of a debate.
    I have never agreed with trans women in women's sports, nor the housing of trans women or at least those who haven't undergone bottom surgery, with female inmates in prison. My position with respect to the question posed, noting that it specifies for ALL legal purposes, would have to be "strongly disagree". Obviously, when it comes to employment, there should be no difference, unless that employment is one that demands a female only employee. I would include accommodations in the exceptions, however if someone who is renting to women only or providing shelter/sanctuary to women only is forced to accommodate someone who merely identifies as female, it poses the same dangers as housing trans female prison inmates with biological female inmates with respect to potential rape. Women should not have to fear that some male opportunistically posing as a female will be creeping into their bed while they are sleeping. This is particularly significant when you are dealing with women already traumatized by rape who would be understandably terrified sharing open accommodations with an intact biological male.

    Legal identification should include two categories, those being gender and biological sex, since gender is now considered more of a social construct and can be male, female or other.
    In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.



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    Quote Originally Posted by FindersKeepers View Post
    Best comment of the video.

    "Women have misogynized themselves to the point where man's comfort takes precedence over women's safety."

    Women must stand up and insist on having their private spaces independent of males. There's no good reason to have a biological male in a woman's locker room or housed with women in a woman's prison.
    Strongly agree with this. That's why I make a point of doing so. The audience reaction you heard there illustrates why people need to hear women's voices on this subject. I mean the guy there is okay and reasonable enough and all, but the really compelling interest here is women's interest, which is why the worst thing anyone can be in the view of the gender identity apologists is specifically a "terf". That's a term that applies only to women by definition and has no male analogy. It's very important to the trans activists to silence and stigmatize female dissenters specifically and as a priority because we're the ones who have the most at stake here and, accordingly, tend to offer the most compelling arguments against their insane, misogynist program.

    That said, men can also have a positive role here. I feel that when men too can see that certain programs and policies tend to place women in greater danger and/or are just simply downright unfair to girls and women and speak out against them accordingly, that helps too because people won't question the motives of men who do so. A man will not be accused of selfishness when he stands up for the interests of women and girls. It just adds that much more weight to the argument to have him there too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    I have never agreed with trans women in women's sports, nor the housing of trans women or at least those who haven't undergone bottom surgery, with female inmates in prison. My position with respect to the question posed, noting that it specifies for ALL legal purposes, would have to be "strongly disagree". Obviously, when it comes to employment, there should be no difference, unless that employment is one that demands a female only employee. I would include accommodations in the exceptions, however if someone who is renting to women only or providing shelter/sanctuary to women only is forced to accommodate someone who merely identifies as female, it poses the same dangers as housing trans female prison inmates with biological female inmates with respect to potential rape. Women should not have to fear that some male opportunistically posing as a female will be creeping into their bed while they are sleeping. This is particularly significant when you are dealing with women already traumatized by rape who would be understandably terrified sharing open accommodations with an intact biological male.

    Legal identification should include two categories, those being gender and biological sex, since gender is now considered more of a social construct and can be male, female or other.
    It would indeed theoretically be reasonably agreeable to accommodate the transgenderists if that was what they were demanding...but it's not. We as a society could respond to this phenomenon by using our public resources to establishing distinct prisons, shelters, athletics programs, etc. for the matching trans-identified communities in order to both avoid visiting needless danger and unfairness upon girls and women while also best serving the specialized needs of trans communities as well. If such a policy program were to be proposed, I doubt many people would object. But that's not what the gender identity movement wants. What they insist upon instead is the elimination of all sex-based segregation of public spaces, period, no matter the consequences. That makes it very difficult for me to be accommodating.
    Last edited by IMPress Polly; 09-09-2022 at 11:31 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IMPress Polly View Post
    It would indeed theoretically be reasonably agreeable to accommodate the transgenderists if that was what they were demanding...but it's not. We as a society could respond to this phenomenon by using our public resources to establishing distinct prisons, shelters, athletics programs, etc. for the matching trans-identified communities in order to both avoid visiting needless danger and unfairness upon girls and women while also best serving the needs of the specialized needs of trans communities as well. If such a policy program were to be proposed, I doubt many people would object. But that's not what the gender identity movement wants. What they insist upon instead is the elimination of all sex-based segregation of public spaces, period, no matter the consequences. That makes it very difficult for me to be accommodating.
    This is looking more and more like a twisted form of male chauvinism if not outright misogyny, where the needs of females are subordinate to the needs of males. Female biology is an inconsequential matter and female gender something that can be donned like an overcoat and we must all accept this masquerade unconditionally and without complaint, regardless of the attendant negative consequences for biological females. The disdain for female biology even infects the trans males. Birthing persons indeed!
    In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.



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    There's something ironic when those who support identity politics for race, ethnicity, sex, sexual orientation, even age, economics, etc, suddenly go, oops, not gender identity but not once stop to question identity politics as a whole.

    As Dakota Wood in Identity Politics and Critical Race Theory Have No Place in U.S. Military puts it: "By relentlessly harping on and reinforcing specific identities—advocating for some, while disparaging others, and requiring certain levels of representation in jobs, ranks, and occupational fields as defined by those identities—what advocates of identity politics actually do is undermine the very thing they supposedly want to advance; namely, equality across peoples."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    This is looking more and more like a twisted form of male chauvinism if not outright misogyny, where the needs of females are subordinate to the needs of males. Female biology is an inconsequential matter and female gender something that can be donned like an overcoat and we must all accept this masquerade unconditionally and without complaint, regardless of the attendant negative consequences for biological females. The disdain for female biology even infects the trans males. Birthing persons indeed!
    You're joking, right? This nonsense grew out of feminist safe spaces. Male chauvinism? Misogyny? The OP herself once flipped out on me for daring to suggest that males and females have different brain structure. What kind of Neanderthal believes in sexual dimorphism! The scientific illiteracy of feminists came home to roost. You're going to blame men? Kindly $#@! off.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    This is looking more and more like a twisted form of male chauvinism if not outright misogyny, where the needs of females are subordinate to the needs of males. Female biology is an inconsequential matter and female gender something that can be donned like an overcoat and we must all accept this masquerade unconditionally and without complaint, regardless of the attendant negative consequences for biological females. The disdain for female biology even infects the trans males. Birthing persons indeed!
    The attitude I see is one of just casual dismissal of violence against women as a non-issue whenever this subject comes up. Like how the young lady you saw in the debate demonstrates more flexibility vis-a-vis athletic fairness than vis-a-vis the basic integrity of women's prisons. When challenged about the increased likelihood that women in prison (who are mostly from poorer, more disadvantaged backgrounds, it might be worth noting) enduring rape, battery, and murder at the hands of convicted male rapists, wife beaters, and murderers, by contrast, she just dismisses the prospect even though it is happening in real life right now. All public places are dangerous for women anyway, she proclaims, so I guess why not make them needlessly more so? That's the attitude I see!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    You're joking, right? This nonsense grew out of feminist safe spaces. Male chauvinism? Misogyny? The OP herself once flipped out on me for daring to suggest that males and females have different brain structure. What kind of Neanderthal believes in sexual dimorphism! The scientific illiteracy of feminists came home to roost. You're going to blame men? Kindly $#@! off.
    One blames men for their own attitudes and actions, yes. I think that's pretty damn fair.

    It's also a fair point though to point out that, in the past, I have been a studious disciple of the blank slate theory, which was precisely the grounds on which I used to oppose transgenderism, viewing it more as an anti-feminist approach to challenging patriarchal social roles than as a truly new phenomenon. A big part of what's changed my mind of late though has been the fact that about half of the younger people living under the umbrella of trans identities today specially claim to be "non-binary". The root perspective there can only be the idea of the sameness of the sexes being taken too far. There have also been other factors, but that's been a major one in my more recent recognition of the pertinence of evolutionary psychology to understanding our differences.

    Many women fear to offer a lot of validation to the idea of innate psychological differences existing between men and women because those differences have traditionally been exaggerated and weaponized to our detriment; specifically in such a way as to de-legitimize the idea that women are competent and professionally capable human beings. Those concerns are far from crazy. But our culture has reached a degree of liberalism that requires pushback on the notion that we're mentally identical in aggregate, especially when it comes to our intimate needs and desires, at least in my view.
    Last edited by IMPress Polly; 09-09-2022 at 12:22 PM.

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