User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234
Results 31 to 39 of 39

Thread: Men are not living up to their gender roles.

  1. #31
    Points: 74,571, Level: 66
    Level completed: 62%, Points required for next Level: 879
    Overall activity: 40.0%
    Achievements:
    50000 Experience PointsSocialVeteran
    Standing Wolf's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    314970
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    25,612
    Points
    74,571
    Level
    66
    Thanks Given
    5,716
    Thanked 21,087x in 12,282 Posts
    Mentioned
    415 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    I read the article which has been reprinted here without the paywall. She recognizes the absurdity of her own outburst when she says: "If one of my grandchildren yelled something that ridiculous, I’d have to stifle a laugh."

    What provoked this 30-minute tsunami of recriminations?


    She is triggered on this particular day by "a small, thoughtless, dismissive, annoyed, patronizing comment.".

    Why does this careless or inconsiderate remark summon up a lifetime's worth of frustration with male "culture"? She doesn't say. Perhaps she was having a bad day.

    Some of the male behaviors she identifies range between the criminally pathological to simply misogynistic. I can relate to her frustration regarding the worst behaviors having yet to be completely eradicated. However, she seems to expect that perfection can be achieved. She also overlooks the fact that men are not the only ones who make sport of mocking the opposite sex. Women also engage in that particular pastime when discussing their husbands and other males. Female comedians depend on male stereotypes for material.

    She needs to manage her expectations. Perfection is not possible. Men, like women, are only human. She also needs to be more considerate of the person with whom she has shared 50 years of marriage. You don't use the person you profess to love as an emotional punching bag. That makes you, not them, inconsiderate and mean-spirited. She also seems to think that controlling behavior is a failing of the male sex alone. She must be blind to all of the seriously controlling women out there. The need to control is related to personality types and sometimes early trauma. When it can't be done directly, it is done surreptitiously, through emotional manipulation. Women specialize in the latter. Personally, I'd rather deal with direct attempts at control. It's easier to challenge.

    Anyway, her statement to the effect that she wishes all men dead, was incredibly absurd and childish, like something a frustrated 13-year-old might say and just as meaningless. She didn't mean those words. They were just used as weapons to inflict emotional pain. A streak of controlling behavior of her own, for which she seems to lack any personal insight.
    There are certain male behaviors that, while I believe them to be instinctual and automatic - with possibly even a genetic component - I have learned over the years that it's best, in the interests of domestic tranquility, to damp down whenever possible. One that I refuse to apologize for - though, as I say, I have learned to resist to a great extent - is the almost irresistible temptation to "problem solve" when a woman offers what appears for all the world to us to be a problem that needs to be solved. Most men whom I have ever known, and I myself am certainly no exception, have no desire to sit around simply emoting about a situation that to us, appears to be crying out to be fixed. If you are man and you have never heard a woman say something along the lines of, "I don't want you to fix it - I just want you to listen", all I can say is...how's the food there in the monastery?
    Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.” - Robert E. Howard

    "Only a rank degenerate would drive 1,500 miles across Texas and not eat a chicken fried steak." - Larry McMurtry

  2. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Standing Wolf For This Useful Post:

    CCitizen (09-16-2022),Dr. Who (09-16-2022)

  3. #32
    Points: 25,022, Level: 38
    Level completed: 52%, Points required for next Level: 628
    Overall activity: 0.1%
    Achievements:
    Veteran25000 Experience Points
    CCitizen's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    1253
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    4,581
    Points
    25,022
    Level
    38
    Thanks Given
    2,963
    Thanked 1,244x in 949 Posts
    Mentioned
    28 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Standing Wolf View Post
    There are certain male behaviors that, while I believe them to be instinctual and automatic - with possibly even a genetic component - I have learned over the years that it's best, in the interests of domestic tranquility, to damp down whenever possible. One that I refuse to apologize for - though, as I say, I have learned to resist to a great extent - is the almost irresistible temptation to "problem solve" when a woman offers what appears for all the world to us to be a problem that needs to be solved. Most men whom I have ever known, and I myself am certainly no exception, have no desire to sit around simply emoting about a situation that to us, appears to be crying out to be fixed. If you are man and you have never heard a woman say something along the lines of, "I don't want you to fix it - I just want you to listen", all I can say is...how's the food there in the monastery?
    Each family has their own pattern. Nevertheless, there is no winning strategy when dealing with an abuser.

    An abused woman can get help by dialing 911. An abused man dialing 911 is more likely to be arrested then helped.
    Progressives are Passionate about establishing Totalitarian Tyranny.

    Conservatives are Apathetic about maintaining a Free Society.

  4. #33
    Points: 174,768, Level: 99
    Level completed: 28%, Points required for next Level: 2,882
    Overall activity: 23.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteranTagger First Class50000 Experience Points
    Dr. Who's Avatar Advisor
    Karma
    870666
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Gallifrey
    Posts
    69,091
    Points
    174,768
    Level
    99
    Thanks Given
    12,827
    Thanked 12,929x in 8,807 Posts
    Mentioned
    206 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Standing Wolf View Post
    There are certain male behaviors that, while I believe them to be instinctual and automatic - with possibly even a genetic component - I have learned over the years that it's best, in the interests of domestic tranquility, to damp down whenever possible. One that I refuse to apologize for - though, as I say, I have learned to resist to a great extent - is the almost irresistible temptation to "problem solve" when a woman offers what appears for all the world to us to be a problem that needs to be solved. Most men whom I have ever known, and I myself am certainly no exception, have no desire to sit around simply emoting about a situation that to us, appears to be crying out to be fixed. If you are man and you have never heard a woman say something along the lines of, "I don't want you to fix it - I just want you to listen", all I can say is...how's the food there in the monastery?
    It's funny, although I know you're right about women resenting that desire to problem solve, I'm kind of atypical for a female. I'm not given to sitting around emoting about a situation just because I need someone to listen, however most women are so given. I'm more solution oriented. As such I've also had venting women tell me, I'm not looking for a solution, I just want to vent. One friend in particular seems to find life extraordinarily challenging, since she has a near constant list of things to vent about! It's excruciatingly difficult to simply always say something supportive, when some people are the authors of their own misery or remain in situations that will torment them on a daily basis because they are afraid to take a chance that there is something better elsewhere. The only exception there is family. They present the only source of frustration for which there is often no solution. They can drive you nuts but what can you do?
    In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.



    "The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems.”
    Mahatma Gandhi

  5. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Dr. Who For This Useful Post:

    CCitizen (09-16-2022),Standing Wolf (09-16-2022)

  6. #34
    Points: 25,022, Level: 38
    Level completed: 52%, Points required for next Level: 628
    Overall activity: 0.1%
    Achievements:
    Veteran25000 Experience Points
    CCitizen's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    1253
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    4,581
    Points
    25,022
    Level
    38
    Thanks Given
    2,963
    Thanked 1,244x in 949 Posts
    Mentioned
    28 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    It's funny, although I know you're right about women resenting that desire to problem solve, I'm kind of atypical for a female. I'm not given to sitting around emoting about a situation just because I need someone to listen, however most women are so given. I'm more solution oriented. As such I've also had venting women tell me, I'm not looking for a solution, I just want to vent. One friend in particular seems to find life extraordinarily challenging, since she has a near constant list of things to vent about! It's excruciatingly difficult to simply always say something supportive, when some people are the authors of their own misery or remain in situations that will torment them on a daily basis because they are afraid to take a chance that there is something better elsewhere. The only exception there is family. They present the only source of frustration for which there is often no solution. They can drive you nuts but what can you do?
    Paradoxically, this describes me very well!

    I am more emotional then 90% of women and 99.5% of men. I am easily hurt. I like to vent and talk to people. This is one of the reasons I find both Traditional and New male roles so unbearable.

    Progressives are Passionate about establishing Totalitarian Tyranny.

    Conservatives are Apathetic about maintaining a Free Society.

  7. #35
    Points: 174,768, Level: 99
    Level completed: 28%, Points required for next Level: 2,882
    Overall activity: 23.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteranTagger First Class50000 Experience Points
    Dr. Who's Avatar Advisor
    Karma
    870666
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Gallifrey
    Posts
    69,091
    Points
    174,768
    Level
    99
    Thanks Given
    12,827
    Thanked 12,929x in 8,807 Posts
    Mentioned
    206 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by CCitizen View Post
    Paradoxically, this describes me very well!

    I am more emotional then 90% of women and 99.5% of men. I am easily hurt. I like to vent and talk to people. This is one of the reasons I find both Traditional and New male roles so unbearable.
    From what I know about Asperger syndrome, while you are well aware of your own emotions, you have difficulty in relating to the emotions of others, so you may do or say things that are offensive to others without realizing it. That can provoke a negative reaction. There is no way to change that other than to learn to recognize other people's moods and feelings in an academic, rather than intuitive fashion. It can be done.

    All people have emotions. The difference is only in how we manage them. Boys are taught at an early age that crying is for babies and later that crying is effeminate, so rather than cry, do something about it or just don't cry. Boys are not supposed to vent because that means they can't find a solution to the problem. Girls are indulged when they cry and are often not taught to look for solutions to problems. Showing weakness is part of being female. Much of this is rather arbitrary and related to teaching people about their gender roles. Certainly males in general do have a greater instinct to look for solutions than females, but instincts are not everything. Emotions can be managed. It just requires a conscious effort and identifying what it is that making you feel bad and dealing with it more pragmatically, with the thinking rather than the emotional part of your brain.
    In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.



    "The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems.”
    Mahatma Gandhi

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to Dr. Who For This Useful Post:

    CCitizen (09-16-2022)

  9. #36
    Original Ranter
    Points: 859,011, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 92.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialCreated Album picturesOverdrive50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Peter1469's Avatar Advisor
    Karma
    496553
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    NOVA
    Posts
    241,683
    Points
    859,011
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    153,214
    Thanked 147,563x in 94,407 Posts
    Mentioned
    2552 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    John Gray, author of Men are from Mars Women are from Venus along with many other books has a traditional view of these issues.

    Men and woman are different in many ways other than sex organs. A big difference is the left brain right brain dominance. Left for men, which focuses on external factors like providing, achieving, etc. Right for women which focuses on interpersonal relationships. He talks a lot about how in marriage the two complement each other (traditional relationships). When they don't (like in non-traditional relationships, or just bad male/female bonds) things don't work well.

    Interestingly transcendental meditation can build the neural links between the left and right brain, and balance a person out with the male and feminine sides.
    ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ


  10. The Following User Says Thank You to Peter1469 For This Useful Post:

    CCitizen (09-16-2022)

  11. #37
    Points: 25,022, Level: 38
    Level completed: 52%, Points required for next Level: 628
    Overall activity: 0.1%
    Achievements:
    Veteran25000 Experience Points
    CCitizen's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    1253
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    4,581
    Points
    25,022
    Level
    38
    Thanks Given
    2,963
    Thanked 1,244x in 949 Posts
    Mentioned
    28 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    From what I know about Asperger syndrome, while you are well aware of your own emotions, you have difficulty in relating to the emotions of others, so you may do or say things that are offensive to others without realizing it. That can provoke a negative reaction. There is no way to change that other than to learn to recognize other people's moods and feelings in an academic, rather than intuitive fashion. It can be done.
    Sad but true. I do not fit into Society, and I am not even sure I would like to fit into Society. Paradoxically, different Societies have different values -- thus we can never be sure if all values of our Society are right.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    All people have emotions. The difference is only in how we manage them. Boys are taught at an early age that crying is for babies and later that crying is effeminate, so rather than cry, do something about it or just don't cry. Boys are not supposed to vent because that means they can't find a solution to the problem. Girls are indulged when they cry and are often not taught to look for solutions to problems. Showing weakness is part of being female. Much of this is rather arbitrary and related to teaching people about their gender roles. Certainly males in general do have a greater instinct to look for solutions than females, but instincts are not everything. Emotions can be managed. It just requires a conscious effort and identifying what it is that making you feel bad and dealing with it more pragmatically, with the thinking rather than the emotional part of your brain.
    Agree 100%. Few males show weakness. I show weakness more then 90% of women and 99.5% of men. I am proud of having Asperger's Syndrome and Depression. This is one of the reasons, I find traditionally male gender role unbearable. Fortunately, I live almost outside of Society except for my parents, online spaces and Runescape.
    Progressives are Passionate about establishing Totalitarian Tyranny.

    Conservatives are Apathetic about maintaining a Free Society.

  12. #38
    Points: 25,022, Level: 38
    Level completed: 52%, Points required for next Level: 628
    Overall activity: 0.1%
    Achievements:
    Veteran25000 Experience Points
    CCitizen's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    1253
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    4,581
    Points
    25,022
    Level
    38
    Thanks Given
    2,963
    Thanked 1,244x in 949 Posts
    Mentioned
    28 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    John Gray, author of Men are from Mars Women are from Venus along with many other books has a traditional view of these issues.

    Men and woman are different in many ways other than sex organs. A big difference is the left brain right brain dominance. Left for men, which focuses on external factors like providing, achieving, etc. Right for women which focuses on interpersonal relationships. He talks a lot about how in marriage the two complement each other (traditional relationships). When they don't (like in non-traditional relationships, or just bad male/female bonds) things don't work well.

    Interestingly transcendental meditation can build the neural links between the left and right brain, and balance a person out with the male and feminine sides.
    I agree -- this is probably the case for over 90% of all men and women. Nevertheless, there are some women who have mostly masculine character traits. There are some men who are more sensitive then 90% of women and 99.5% of men.
    Progressives are Passionate about establishing Totalitarian Tyranny.

    Conservatives are Apathetic about maintaining a Free Society.

  13. #39
    Original Ranter
    Points: 859,011, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 92.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialCreated Album picturesOverdrive50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Peter1469's Avatar Advisor
    Karma
    496553
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    NOVA
    Posts
    241,683
    Points
    859,011
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    153,214
    Thanked 147,563x in 94,407 Posts
    Mentioned
    2552 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by CCitizen View Post
    I agree -- this is probably the case for over 90% of all men and women. Nevertheless, there are some women who have mostly masculine character traits. There are some men who are more sensitive then 90% of women and 99.5% of men.
    And those people are unhappy and lack rewarding relationships.
    ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ


  14. The Following User Says Thank You to Peter1469 For This Useful Post:

    CCitizen (09-16-2022)

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts