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Thread: Stacey Abrams says 'no such thing' as 6-week fetal heartbeat: 'Manufactured sound'

  1. #231
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    TheLiquidGuy's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    And I explained to you that this is irrelevant.
    What? What does that mean? What is irrelevant? Do you even know what you are talking about?

    This is what? The fourth time?
    Its the first time. But not the first time you said something that makes no sense.



    Lol You keep making the argument that if there is no harm then there is no problem.
    If there is no harm, there is no problem. there is nothing wrong with that argument.

    It's a bad argument.
    Not only is it not a bad argument. It should be a guiding principle when considering future laws.

    Harm and the perception of harm are not the same.
    That's right. They are not. I didn't say they were. I said that if no one ever experiences harm (subjectively) then there is none. The eventual subjective experience of harm by someone with standing is a necessary condition for harm to count. This is just one of many qualities that can justify protecting a being.


    “Just say the election was corrupt and leave the
    rest to me and the Republican congressmen”
    --Donald Trump

    Speaking to the Justice Department on Dec. 27, 2020. Conversation memorialized in then-acting Deputy Attorney General Richard Donoghue’s contemporaneous notes.



  2. #232
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    Chris's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLiquidGuy View Post
    Society has no standing....

    I doubt you would ever ask from whom the bell tolls. Hell, you wouldn't even hear it.
    To be conservative, then, is to prefer the familiar to the unknown, to prefer the tried to the untried, fact to mystery, the actual to the possible, the limited to the unbounded, the near to the distant, the sufficient to the superabundant, the convenient to the perfect, present laughter to utopian bliss. ― Michael Joseph Oakeshott, Rationalism in Politics and Other Essays

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  4. #233

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    Cletus's Avatar tPF Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLiquidGuy View Post
    I said that if no one ever experiences harm (subjectively) then there is none.
    So, you don't consider being killed to be "harm" unless the person being killed "perceives" it as such. That means you agree with my shotgun analogy. If someone comes up behind you and blows your head apart with a shotgun, as long as you were not aware it was happening, there is no "harm" done.

    Do you really not realize how idiotic that is?
    “Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue.” - Barry Goldwater

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    Captdon (09-28-2022),carolina73 (09-25-2022)

  6. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by carolina73 View Post
    Perfect justification for killing the homeless, single illegals, old people or anyone else that will not be noticed missing.
    No. As I have explained many times before. Consciousness and the perception of harm is just one of many other deal breakers. I focus on consciousness because that is one of the few things that apply to a fetus.


    Some deal breakers that also apply to post natal humans include but are not limited to:
    -if you have an investment in life. Or if you have history
    -if you have asserted a will to live. implicitly, or explicitly.
    -if someone with standing cares about you

    If any of these are present, then you cannot kill them. Therefore it would be immoral to kill a homeless man.

    The first item "investment in life" pretty much covers all post natal humans.


    “Just say the election was corrupt and leave the
    rest to me and the Republican congressmen”
    --Donald Trump

    Speaking to the Justice Department on Dec. 27, 2020. Conversation memorialized in then-acting Deputy Attorney General Richard Donoghue’s contemporaneous notes.



  7. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    Your explanation is deeply flawed. Harm and the perception of harm are not the same thing.
    They are not the same. I never said they were. One is a necessary condition for the other.


    “Just say the election was corrupt and leave the
    rest to me and the Republican congressmen”
    --Donald Trump

    Speaking to the Justice Department on Dec. 27, 2020. Conversation memorialized in then-acting Deputy Attorney General Richard Donoghue’s contemporaneous notes.



  8. #236
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    Waterhead. Lol.
    When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.“ - Benjamin Franklin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLiquidGuy View Post
    No. As I have explained many times before. Consciousness and the perception of harm is just one of many other deal breakers. I focus on consciousness because that is one of the few things that apply to a fetus.


    Some deal breakers that also apply to post natal humans include but are not limited to:
    -if you have an investment in life. Or if you have history
    -if you have asserted a will to live. implicitly, or explicitly.
    -if someone with standing cares about you

    If any of these are present, then you cannot kill them. Therefore it would be immoral to kill a homeless man.

    The first item "investment in life" pretty much covers all post natal humans.
    That is only your perception based on your political beliefs. Your justifying your view to meet what you think makes you sound correct.

    Abortion is murder. I'm willing to compromise that reality to give the mother a chance to decide.
    If you are willing to justify it for political reasons then at least have the courage to admit it.

    When you are on the stand for murder then I can guarantee that one question will not be "did he feel it?","did you shoot him in the back of the head?".
    Let's go Brandon !!!

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  11. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cletus View Post
    So, you don't consider being killed to be "harm" unless the person being killed "perceives" it as such. That means you agree with my shotgun analogy. If someone comes up behind you and blows your head apart with a shotgun, as long as you were not aware it was happening, there is no "harm" done.

    Do you really not realize how idiotic that is?
    Assuming
    1) I felt nothing,
    2) my family/friends/co-workers never find out.
    3) there is no ripple effect caused by my absence.
    4) there may be other conditions

    ...then its conceivable that you have created no considerable harm.


    However, it is still immoral (not to mention illegal) to kill me because, among other reasons, I implicitly assert a will to live. Also because you are destroying my investment in life and the history I have created while alive.


    “Just say the election was corrupt and leave the
    rest to me and the Republican congressmen”
    --Donald Trump

    Speaking to the Justice Department on Dec. 27, 2020. Conversation memorialized in then-acting Deputy Attorney General Richard Donoghue’s contemporaneous notes.



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    Quote Originally Posted by carolina73 View Post
    That is only your perception based on your political beliefs. Your justifying your view to meet what you think makes you sound correct.
    What specifically is only my perception? My politics are irrelevant.

    Abortion is murder. I'm willing to compromise that reality to give the mother a chance to decide.
    If you believe abortion is murder, then you are grossly immoral for allowing exceptions for rape and incest.
    If you are willing to justify it for political reasons then at least have the courage to admit it.
    My politics are irrelevant.Strict abortion restrictions are appalling to me. They are a super extreme overreach by government into the personal lives of their citizens. They are a shame. No country can call itself free when it unduly forces it's citizens to gestate a child for 9 months, give borth in pain, and then make the heart breaking decision on whether to keep or give away a child. Governments have no $#@!ing business doing that much to people.


    When you are on the stand for murder then I can guarantee that one question will not be "did he feel it?"
    The reason for that might be because it doesn't matter. There are other conditions besides pain and suffering that make murder immoral as I have mentioned above.


    “Just say the election was corrupt and leave the
    rest to me and the Republican congressmen”
    --Donald Trump

    Speaking to the Justice Department on Dec. 27, 2020. Conversation memorialized in then-acting Deputy Attorney General Richard Donoghue’s contemporaneous notes.



  13. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLiquidGuy View Post
    What specifically is only my perception? My politics are irrelevant.



    If you believe abortion is murder, then you are grossly immoral for allowing exceptions for rape and incest.

    My politics are irrelevant.Strict abortion restrictions are appalling to me. They are a super extreme overreach by government into the personal lives of their citizens. They are a shame. No country can call itself free when it unduly forces it's citizens to gestate a child for 9 months, give borth in pain, and then make the heart breaking decision on whether to keep or give away a child. Governments have no $#@!ing business doing that much to people.



    The reason for that might be because it doesn't matter. There are other conditions besides pain and suffering that make murder immoral as I have mentioned above.
    Our politics are irrelevant. Our Supreme Court thanks to Donald Trump and Mitch McConnell have ended the era of big government where abortion is concerned. You can take your opinions and I can take mine to the state level and decide where we live, how much the state government can be involved in abortion. If your state wants a 15 week ban, so be it. If mine wishes unrestricted partial birth abortion, I'll have to send a pro-life candidate to my State House and change the laws. The federal government has no say, that is how it should be, it's no longer a constitutional right. Thank God. And Trump. And Alito. And Thomas. And Kavanaugh. And Gorsuch. And Barrett. All true patriots.
    People who enter the US without our permission are illegal aliens and illegal aliens should not be treated the same as people who entered the US legally

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