What is the endgame in Ukraine?

[Ethereal]

He's an anti-American stooge. Always goes against whatever we do. Putin wants to restore the old USSR. He's made that clear.

Yeah, I didn't think you could answer the question.

[Common Sense]

Yes, we get it... Russia bad.

Now, what is the plan? What are the objectives and how do we achieve them?

Yes, we get it…Russia good, America bad.

Objectives? Seeing as this a defensive operation, I think the plan is to thwart the Russian invasion.

[Ethereal]

Lol…it’s amazing how you can misrepresent what I said extrapolate it into an entire narrative that I never actually said or implied. I said what I said. I didn’t say or imply any of that fiction.

Yes, I’m well aware of the history of European and American expansionism and how it’s irrelevant to the discussion.

No, the majority of countries have not remained neutral. The vast majority of countries have officially condemned Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

And again, regardless of your misrepresentation of what I said, I haven’t admitted or described this as a proxy war driven by western agendas. This war is the sole responsibility of Putin. If the west sees this as a responsibility to defend democracy and an opportunity to counter a deranged despot, I’m fine with that.

Again, it’s bizarre how you side with a tyrant like Putin.

They have remained neutral. I gave you two examples: India and China. They are effectively funding Russia's war with their continued purchase of Russian oil and gas. Together they represent roughly 35% of the world population. Most of the world do not agree with your virulent narrative about Russia. Most of the world do not agree that Russia should be treated as a pariah or outcast.

But none of your response so far has actually described a coherent endgame or strategy inside Ukraine. Nor have you adequately addressed the profound risk that continued war poses to Ukraine itself, the country you claim to care so much about. What will it take for you to back down? Does Kiev have to be reduced to rubble before you will wake up?

[The Booman]

At this point I don't think Putin knows. This has gone badly for him and he has lost the support of the Russians. He is desperate and dangerous and us portraying Zelensky as Gandi in a t-shirt that must be defended at all costs is not helping

[Ethereal]

Objectives? Seeing as this a defensive operation, I think the plan is to thwart the Russian invasion.

Thwart it how? The Ukrainian armed forces are being ground down into a bloody stump. Europe's economy is headed towards a severe recession. Russia has just called up an additional 300,000 reservists and threatened to use nuclear weapons. Is there any scenario that would cause you to back down? Or do you just plan to play chicken with a nuclear power and see who blinks first?

[Ethereal]

Yes, we get it…Russia good, America bad.

By the way, comments like this prove that you are not actually debating in good faith.

I have never said that Russia was "good" or that America was "bad", whereas you absolutely have portrayed Russia as a one-dimensional bad guy. Challenging your one-dimensional narratives in no way implies that Russia is good or America is bad.

[Common Sense]

They have remained neutral. I gave you two examples: India and China. They are effectively funding Russia's war with their continued purchase of Russian oil and gas. Together they represent roughly 35% of the world population. Most of the world do not agree with your virulent narrative about Russia. Most of the world do not agree that Russia should be treated as a pariah or outcast.

But none of your response so far has actually described a coherent endgame or strategy inside Ukraine. Nor have you adequately addressed the profound risk that continued war poses to Ukraine itself, the country you claim to care so much about. What will it take for you to back down? Does Kiev have to be reduced to rubble before you will wake up?

China is always diplomatic, but even they have expressed concerns over the war in Ukraine. India has expressed the sanctity of sovereign nations, but is officially remaining neutral for economic reasons.

Still, the vast majority of countries have condemned Russian aggression.

At the end of the day, you’re standing with countries like China, Iran, and India and completely excusing the actions of a corrupt regime led by a tyrant. You have plenty of criticism and accusations of devious plots by the west, yet seem to paint Russia and Putin as innocent victims. It’s weird stuff.

[Common Sense]

By the way, comments like this prove that you are not actually debating in good faith.

I have never said that Russia was "good" or that America was "bad", whereas you absolutely have portrayed Russia as a one-dimensional bad guy. Challenging your one-dimensional narratives in no way implies that Russia is good or America is bad.

Seriously? But when you do the same it’s legitimate? Lol…sure.

[Ethereal]

When a world leader gets in front of a camera and says to the whole world "this is not a bluff", a smart person would take it seriously, especially when it concerns the possible use of nuclear weaponry. I realize that trying to avert nuclear war is considered "pro-Putin" or whatever, but I just cannot help but worry about where this is heading given the total lack of strategic vision at the heart of western foreign policy.

[Ethereal]

China is always diplomatic, but even they have expressed concerns over the war in Ukraine. India has expressed the sanctity of sovereign nations, but is officially remaining neutral for economic reasons.

Still, the vast majority of countries have condemned Russian aggression.

At the end of the day, you’re standing with countries like China, Iran, and India and completely excusing the actions of a corrupt regime led by a tyrant. You have plenty of criticism and accusations of devious plots by the west, yet seem to paint Russia and Putin as innocent victims. It’s weird stuff.

Yes, I'm standing with the majority of the world population. Not that it makes me right. Unlike liberals, I don't think being in the majority makes me right. But it is worth noting that the policies you support are not actually supported by the "international community", which you ignore when convenient.

And what's really weird is how you cannot explain what the endgame in Ukraine is supposed to be. I guess you just support open-ended conflict purely for its own sake.