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Thread: School of choice making a strong comback

  1. #31
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    LescoBrandon's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephenpe View Post
    I love the information I glean from conservative forums. The Public Schools are failling. Just look at the test scores. blahbhlahblah.......
    Have you seen actual tests and tests scores? In my state teachers are not allowed to see the tests given by the state. God forbid teachers know what the state actually wants the kids to study for. And we all know some cksckker is making boocoo money off these contracts to create these hallowed tests that prove our schools are failing. Here is an idea. Go look at the standards the state of fla demands their children to pass in each grade. Teachers read these standards and have to use the state or district mandated materials to help their children pass these arbitrary and now far from developementally appropriate tests for kindergarten and first grade (in Fla for damn sure). I worked in a poor district with lots of little private schools, mostly associated with Baptist churches. The teachers in those schools did not have to be certified teachers. When ever we got kids back in our schools from them they were far behind much of the time. They are not mandated by the state to do much of the bllshttt we had to do. When you say public schools are failing you realize how many different systems there are. Fla has over 67 districts. All with different boards and admins. The state of Fla does micromanage the sthttt out of them but by and large the rich counties do much better than poor ones. My district loses good teachers each year because the border county pays so much better. I actually have two kids in public school now (in this same poor county). They have some good teachers and then some poor. My kids will get through it because Im on top of their schooling. But to say "the public schools are failing and voucher them into oblivion" is uninformed. I know rushlimbaugh railed for decades about the Govt schools and indoctrination but it was 90% bllsshtt. He knew less than most of you about what goes on in a real classroom. ANd from what I read it here that aint a lot.
    And btw. Parents do have a choice. Home school them, send them to the Antioch School of Holy Rollers and what ever but pay your way like it always has been, Other wise let me pick and choose what state or govt. funded programs I can opt out of or get my little share to do it my way.
    for giggle and shttts chck out the 58 standard for teaching reading in k-1 teachers have to document.https://www.cpalms.org/PreviewCourse/Preview/3067#
    Schools are obviously failing.
    Democrats manage to keep getting elected about half the time, despite how far left they've moved.
    “The notion that a radical is one who hates his country is naïve and usually idiotic. He is, more likely, one who likes his country more than the rest of us, and is thus more disturbed than the rest of us when he sees it debauched. He is not a bad citizen turning to crime; he is a good citizen driven to despair.”
    H.L. Mencken

  2. #32
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    stephenpe's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by FindersKeepers View Post
    I've often thought the country school/neighborhood school would be an improvement over the huge public schools some cities have.

    I really think the key is having parents more involved.
    You get it. These mega schools (consolidation was they buzz word long ago) dehumanize teachers and kids. Parents want to know their kids teachers and the staff. You house them in small cities and lose much of that family atmosphere. But it saves money.

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    FindersKeepers (11-30-2022)

  4. #33
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    carolina73's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by FindersKeepers View Post
    I've often thought the country school/neighborhood school would be an improvement over the huge public schools some cities have.

    I really think the key is having parents more involved.
    The huge amounts of failures in city neighborhoods were not going to get parental involvement. They are mostly encouraging them to drop out and get out of their apartments.

    Like anything else there is no one solution to the problems. Vocational schools. Get them out of their welfare cycles. And get their next generation to advance further. Think about saving kids from their parents in these cases, instead of depending on their parents.
    Let's go Brandon !!!

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    FindersKeepers (11-30-2022)

  6. #34
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    zelmo1234's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephenpe View Post
    I love the information I glean from conservative forums. The Public Schools are failling. Just look at the test scores. blahbhlahblah.......
    Have you seen actual tests and tests scores? In my state teachers are not allowed to see the tests given by the state. God forbid teachers know what the state actually wants the kids to study for. And we all know some cksckker is making boocoo money off these contracts to create these hallowed tests that prove our schools are failing. Here is an idea. Go look at the standards the state of fla demands their children to pass in each grade. Teachers read these standards and have to use the state or district mandated materials to help their children pass these arbitrary and now far from developementally appropriate tests for kindergarten and first grade (in Fla for damn sure). I worked in a poor district with lots of little private schools, mostly associated with Baptist churches. The teachers in those schools did not have to be certified teachers. When ever we got kids back in our schools from them they were far behind much of the time. They are not mandated by the state to do much of the bllshttt we had to do. When you say public schools are failing you realize how many different systems there are. Fla has over 67 districts. All with different boards and admins. The state of Fla does micromanage the sthttt out of them but by and large the rich counties do much better than poor ones. My district loses good teachers each year because the border county pays so much better. I actually have two kids in public school now (in this same poor county). They have some good teachers and then some poor. My kids will get through it because Im on top of their schooling. But to say "the public schools are failing and voucher them into oblivion" is uninformed. I know rushlimbaugh railed for decades about the Govt schools and indoctrination but it was 90% bllsshtt. He knew less than most of you about what goes on in a real classroom. ANd from what I read it here that aint a lot.
    And btw. Parents do have a choice. Home school them, send them to the Antioch School of Holy Rollers and what ever but pay your way like it always has been, Other wise let me pick and choose what state or govt. funded programs I can opt out of or get my little share to do it my way.
    for giggle and shttts chck out the 58 standard for teaching reading in k-1 teachers have to document.https://www.cpalms.org/PreviewCourse/Preview/3067#
    Thank you so much for the information, I was not aware of how wrong that I was

    Student test scores plunged during the pandemic - The Washington Post

    Oops" It is worse than I thought, and NO state is unaffected. But it is just because of Covid Right.... No we have been falling compared to other countries for Decades.

    I have an idea, Stop spending my tax dollars on the failure that is the current public school system. And stop social promotion, these same parents that you want to take money out of their pockets are already paying for schooling.

    Now for the real reason? If the poor and under privileged get a good education, they might not need government assistance. If they can fend for themselves, they are far less like to vote for the socialist policies of the Democrats. They are far less likely to believe that those that have made it are holding them back.

    You want the tax dollars make the system worth paying for

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  8. #35
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    carolina73's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephenpe View Post
    I love the information I glean from conservative forums. The Public Schools are failling. Just look at the test scores. blahbhlahblah.......
    Have you seen actual tests and tests scores? In my state teachers are not allowed to see the tests given by the state. God forbid teachers know what the state actually wants the kids to study for. And we all know some cksckker is making boocoo money off these contracts to create these hallowed tests that prove our schools are failing. Here is an idea. Go look at the standards the state of fla demands their children to pass in each grade. Teachers read these standards and have to use the state or district mandated materials to help their children pass these arbitrary and now far from developementally appropriate tests for kindergarten and first grade (in Fla for damn sure). I worked in a poor district with lots of little private schools, mostly associated with Baptist churches. The teachers in those schools did not have to be certified teachers. When ever we got kids back in our schools from them they were far behind much of the time. They are not mandated by the state to do much of the bllshttt we had to do. When you say public schools are failing you realize how many different systems there are. Fla has over 67 districts. All with different boards and admins. The state of Fla does micromanage the sthttt out of them but by and large the rich counties do much better than poor ones. My district loses good teachers each year because the border county pays so much better. I actually have two kids in public school now (in this same poor county). They have some good teachers and then some poor. My kids will get through it because Im on top of their schooling. But to say "the public schools are failing and voucher them into oblivion" is uninformed. I know rushlimbaugh railed for decades about the Govt schools and indoctrination but it was 90% bllsshtt. He knew less than most of you about what goes on in a real classroom. ANd from what I read it here that aint a lot.
    And btw. Parents do have a choice. Home school them, send them to the Antioch School of Holy Rollers and what ever but pay your way like it always has been, Other wise let me pick and choose what state or govt. funded programs I can opt out of or get my little share to do it my way.
    for giggle and shttts chck out the 58 standard for teaching reading in k-1 teachers have to document.https://www.cpalms.org/PreviewCourse/Preview/3067#
    I don't think we are in disagreement.

    Blaming the public schools is more to do with the fact that they are moving away from the basics and the health of the students.
    That has to do with what the government is doing to the schools. When slightly over half of all school costs are administration instead of education, then we have normal government waste at work.

    The problem is that kids that want to learn are held back by those that don't, regardless of whose fault that is.

    So go back to separating their desire and ability to excel or fail. The teacher cannot teach 30 kids of varying capabilities at one time correctly.

    That is what vouchers do. If you are a black single mother that is focused on her child and he excels then don't hold him back. Let her put him where he needs to be to not be bored.

    If you a white couple with dad in prison and you can't wait to get rid of your kids then send him to a trade school where he learns basic education and trades, so he can do what they want and get the hell out of the poor neighbor and raise a better next generation.
    Last edited by carolina73; 11-30-2022 at 05:02 PM.
    Let's go Brandon !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by FindersKeepers View Post
    I feel as though parents should always have the option of choosing a school. However, I'm not a fan of the voucher program being used to pay for other school tuition, because taxpayers still have to bear the financial burden of maintaining the public schools.
    fewer students means fewer needs and staff and even buildings and maybe wit the smaller class size they can do a better job

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    Quote Originally Posted by zelmo1234 View Post
    fewer students means fewer needs and staff and even buildings and maybe wit the smaller class size they can do a better job
    Smaller class size is definitely a plus in educational settings. But, a more likely scenario will be larger classes if the school has to let some teachers go.

    I do understand the desire good parents have to get their kids out of public schools, I just don't think they should ask taxpayers to foot the bill for private educations.
    ""A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul" ~George Bernard Shaw

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    The school my children attended (public) had an option for multi-age schooling(1-6). When we saw that all the local teachers enrolled their kids in it, we figured they knew something we didn't and enrolled our oldest. She is very intelligent(chip off the old block)was already reading before she went to 4k. If it was a $#@! show we figured she could catch up or was already at her current level in regular school. It was great, they were able to work ahead of the grade level, and were in the advanced classes. Only downside was for our oldest, who maxed out, and ended up being a class helper for the last 1.5 years. She had already passed 8 grade math, and was reading at a college level. The teacher explained that there are plenty of books for her reading level, but not at her maturity level. It was discontinued recently, which I thought was a shame. It worked great for my children.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zelmo1234 View Post
    I wanted to ge the opinion of all on this issue, as it did very well on ballots in November, And the Strongest supporters seem to be lower income families that have been let down by the public education system for decades.

    Even here in the people's republic of MI. The state will be implementing a voucher program in areas where schools have test scores that are below average, which at this time is 80% of the districts.

    I like the idea of parents being able to choose education over indoctrination. This and the right to work status have been major blows to the unions in a state that was once a union stronghold

    Thoughts?
    My first thought was that it’s not making a comeback. A comeback suggests that it went away and lost popularity at some point. It’s always been very popular with parents who have been afforded the opportunity to take advantage of it.
    When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.“ - Benjamin Franklin.


    “When people get used to preferential treatment equal treatment seems like discrimination.” - Thomas Sowell

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    Quote Originally Posted by FindersKeepers View Post
    Smaller class size is definitely a plus in educational settings. But, a more likely scenario will be larger classes if the school has to let some teachers go.
    I do understand the desire good parents have to get their kids out of public schools, I just don't think they should ask taxpayers to foot the bill for private educations.
    Don't good Parents pay taxes too. The people that pay taxes should have an expectation, and while I am fortunate and don't have children of school age anymore and can financially afford to send my Grand Children to the Best private schools.

    And I pay a Crap load of property taxes. Should I not get a return on my investment. Currently the public schools are turning out an inferior product and that cost me end more money in higher drug abuse, more people dependent on the system, higher unemployment, and higher Crime.

    Are you suggesting that the Teachers in Public school are not capable of e3ducating our children at a satisfactory level? Especially if they don't have to waste time on trying to indoctrinate them into the core values of the left in this country?

    Why don't you think that public schools can compete, they will still have way more money than the private schools.

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