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Thread: Disenchantment

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    Disenchantment

    A paragraph from Marcel Gauchet's The Disenchantment of the World: A Political History of Religion. It's a difficult book to read, written originally in French, and the French have a round-about rhetorical style, but this paragraph made sense, and offers commentary on Beginning of the End of Christianity?, which has drifted off into translation.

    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Can We Live Without Enchantment?

    ...The claim that wonder, enchantment, and mystery are essential to human flourishing should not be surprising. Scientific progress has always been sustained by a dialectical tension between what is known and what is unknown, and between things that may be questioned and things that must be presumed. This is what physicist Freeman Dyson meant when he said that “science is not a collection of truths” but rather “a continuing exploration of mysteries.” It is also what physicist Marcelo Gleiser meant when he observed that while “we strive toward knowledge, always more knowledge, … we must understand that we are, and will remain, surrounded by mystery.” In this regard, Dyson and Dr. Gleiser are not outliers in the scientific community. Many scientists—from Newton to Einstein to Steven Weinberg—have acknowledged the essential role of mystery and wonder in the advancement of science.

    To speak more intimately, mystery, enchantment, and wonder figure in our psychological and spiritual well-being. It is harder than ever to contend that the Enlightenment project of conquering nature with the tools of instrumental rationality has been productive of ever-greater human happiness, given the abundant evidence to the contrary in the moral life of the modern West. Is the presumptuous mapping of all material reality a boon to humankind, or will it prove a curse? Might an acknowledgment of mystery as a steady and enduring feature of our condition—a cornerstone of our existence, even—be key to our mental and moral health, and our sense of our own freedom?...
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Common's Avatar Senior Member
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    Chris one thing has always been a certaintly since the minute I registered on this forum and that is that most of the time I cant figure out your threads lol...Merry Christmas Chris
    LETS GO BRANDON
    F Joe Biden

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    Chris (12-24-2022),Mister D (12-24-2022)

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    Lol It's actually a very interesting book I've read twice and plan reading a third time. As Chris mentioned, it's very French and difficult to digest at times but I found it very rewarding. Gauchet is an atheist but I find his insights fascinating. The forward of my copy was written by Catholic philosopher Charles Taylor.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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    BTW, @Chris I think you enjoy Rene Guenon. His work doesn't read like that.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    Lol It's actually a very interesting book I've read twice and plan reading a third time. As Chris mentioned, it's very French and difficult to digest at times but I found it very rewarding. Gauchet is an atheist but I find his insights fascinating. The forward of my copy was written by Catholic philosopher Charles Taylor.
    Yes, I should say, at times it's difficult, and then, other times it comes across very clear. I think it's unclear when he's arguing philosophical matters I'm not familiar with.

    The OP passage was interesting in that it's true religion (religiosity?) carries on even when individuals no longer believe.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    BTW, @Chris I think you enjoy Rene Guenon. His work doesn't read like that.
    His The Crisis of the Modern World just arrived
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    His The Crisis of the Modern World just arrived
    I'm almost done. Relatively easy reading.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Yes, I should say, at times it's difficult, and then, other times it comes across very clear. I think it's unclear when he's arguing philosophical matters I'm not familiar with.

    The OP passage was interesting in that it's true religion (religiosity?) carries on even when individuals no longer believe.
    I think that's true. What is the ideology of progress, for example, but a secularized Biblical theme? But I think what Gauchet is getting at is what forms the foundation of the social bond in modern society and our relationship with the natural world is no longer religious or sacred but entirely determined by human beings themselves. For better or worse as he says...
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    I think that's true. What is the ideology of progress, for example, but a secularized Biblical theme? But I think what Gauchet is getting at is what forms the foundation of the social bond in modern society and our relationship with the natural world.
    Yes, when he writes of the conserving logic integrating us with being, nature, and culture being inverted.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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