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Thread: How political was Jesus?

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    How political was Jesus?

    I don't think He was political but...

    How political was Jesus?

    Blaise Pascal is right to have jotted in one of his baroque notebooks that Jesus lived “in such obscurity… that historians writing of important matters of state hardly noticed him”. And Erich Auerbach is right to have stressed in a book he wrote in Istanbul, exiled from Hitler’s Reich, that Jesus’s death was “a provincial incident”. This is what makes it so remarkable that the life and death of an impoverished Galilean rabbi are described in a number of non-Christian texts from the first centuries of our era.

    Jesus’s first non-Christian mention may be found in a Syrian philosopher’s letter, The Letter of Mara bar Sarapion, which was rediscovered in the 19th century but is vexingly hard to date. One eminent historian, Fergus Millar, concluded that this Letter was likely written as early as 73AD. This would make it roughly contemporary with the first gospels to be written.

    Though Millar’s dating is contested, Mara’s Letter is certainly a pagan text of the first or second century AD. In it, both Socrates and Jesus are seen as belonging to an august history of philosopher-martyrs. Mara thinks that it is human error which led to their deaths, and to the devastation of the cities in which they died:

    “What can we say, when wise men are forcibly dragged by the hands of tyrants, and their wisdom is taken captive by slander? … For what benefit did the Athenians derive from the slaying of Socrates? They received the retribution for it in the form of famine … Or the Judaeans [from the slaying] of their wise king? From that very time their sovereignty was taken away …. [Yet] Socrates did not die, because of Plato … nor did the wise king [die], because of the new laws that he gave.”

    There is nothing necessarily untoward about Mara’s notion of divine nemesis. A Cynic philosopher, Dio of Prusa, similarly holds that Socrates’s death was the cause of the Athenians’ later misfortunes. And a Judaean historian, Josephus (on whom more in a moment), reports that many Judaeans viewed Herod Antipas’s humiliating defeat in 36AD, by a Nabatean king, as divine retribution for his murder of John the Baptist. For a first or second-century philosopher such as Mara, “killing the philosophers” was a recurring drama which led to the gods’ destruction of Mediterranean cities. And for early Christians (and many Judaeans), “killing the prophets” was a recurring drama which included John the Baptist and Jesus, and which brought down judgement on the cities of Galilee and Judaea.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    This is pretty good.

    https://www.rethinknow.org/was-jesus-political/


    Was Jesus political?
    Yes… And no…
    Jesus was political, but not the way we think. He didn’t act like other political leaders of his day, or ours. Politicians throughout history have used their power for self-preservation or self-promotion. But Jesus didn’t do that.
    Jesus rarely weighed into political issues and regularly rejected the systems in place. He always placed others’ interests ahead of his own. He didn’t seek political gain for himself and instead sought to place others over himself.
    But his life and mission carried with it political implications. His life was ended in a political execution because he threatened the status quo of the political leaders of the day.
    When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.“ - Benjamin Franklin.


    “When people get used to preferential treatment equal treatment seems like discrimination.” - Thomas Sowell

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    Chris (12-25-2022),LescoBrandon (12-25-2022)

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    Jesus was an uppity Essene radical Jew who detested the current powers that be.

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    Wtf?
    When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.“ - Benjamin Franklin.


    “When people get used to preferential treatment equal treatment seems like discrimination.” - Thomas Sowell

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    Jesus was an uppity Essene radical Jew who detested the current powers that be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tahuyaman View Post
    Wtf?
    Mini is correct that some historians believe Jesus was part of a "fringe" Jewish group and was anti-establishment (like you know who!). The Essene Jews were a mystical Jewish group that are associated with the Dead Sea Scrolls. I have heard that some historians believe that John the Baptist was an Essene, but I have not heard that about Jesus. I do see on the Net that some scholars believe Jesus was as well, and even the secular sources like Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews 13 & 18; Jewish War 2; Philo, Every Good Man is Free 75-91; Hypothetica 11; Pliny Natural History 5, support that theory.
    ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ


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