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Thread: Why society still needs the family

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tahuyaman
    It's sad to realize that we are living in a time when the importance of the familiy structure needs to be explained to people.
    Even basic biology and sexual dimorphism is somehow controversial now.

    Quote Originally Posted by zelmo1234
    In order to have the breakdown needed by the left to usher in their Utopia, they can't have the family structure.
    This is what makes Utopianism basically impossible. What they want is to make reality into a physically impossible subset of itself, effectively denying human nature. It's a sentiment that does appeal a lot to sexual deviants, among others.

    Quote Originally Posted by zelmo1234
    Gay or Straight. they can't have people of faith, any faith. These are things that make people self reliant or have support structures that don't depend on the Deep State.
    I think it goes much deeper than that, and I don't think it has so much to do with the so-called intelligentsia and secret police--people addicted to government paychecks and groupthink. One of the things I've noted is that the effort to push acceptance of sexual deviance is to assert that such people are born that way. This is a remarkable assertion from leftists from the standpoint that it is basically a rejection of Locke and the liberal idea that humans are born tabula rasa. Much of the political argument around issues like homosexual marriage are a wholesale lie; specifically, that marriage is about love. That's utter nonsense, and anyone with an understanding of history knows this; yet, we were subjected to the most torrential downpour of BS from Justice Kennedy in Obergefell that I could no longer take the court seriously. Liberals frequently assert that you can teach away any undersired behavior, with the new exception for sexually deviant behavior. Get a DUI? You must go to alcohol class. Tell a cop to go F himself? You must go to anger management class. Get a job in a major corporation? You must go to sexual harassment training. Everything can be solved by education, except homosexuality. So today's liberal is saying that some behaviors are innate and can't be changed. Some behaviors are as innate and immutable as being born with a certain skin color or a certain gender. Now, if you make an assertion about race and crime, then you are a racist even if you have plenty of evidence to support your argument--so clearly, these people are not interested in intellectual consistency.

    Radical egalitarians who know the history of marriage know perfectly well why the oppose it: women were chattel of their fathers until they became the chattel property of their husbands. This was quite true until about 100 years ago. I remember being in Dubai in 2019 and marvelling at their embrace of modern accoutrements of Western society, but more or less a rejection of Western moral decadence. It struck me at that point that the current ethos of men and women being political equals has only been around in the West for roughly 100 years. Where I think the intelligentsia was involved there is that the Communist revolution of 1917 pushed that ethos of women voting, and the Western imperial powers were fearful of women becoming a fifth column of the communists.

    While I understand the sentiments of people trapped in loveless marriages, I do think the modern liberal ethos does not address humans in their animal nature. For edification:

    Harry Harlow and the Nature of Affection

    Harlow developed an evidentiary-based attachment theory during experiments on Rhesus monkeys--using methods that are considered unethical today.

    It's fairly obvious now why children born to single parent families tend to struggle much more than children from two-parent families. Yet, that is contrary to the Sexual Revolution and Women's Liberation. It has had disastrous effects on many people.

    So who is going to build this Utopia with the modern left? The homeless? The alcoholic and drug addicted? The mentally ill? Pretty much any well-adjusted person wants nothing to do with leftist Utopianism, which makes them so angry at people from healthy families.

    This is also why Women's Liberation and the Sexual Revolution has had it's counter-revolution in the form of #MeToo--primarily women past their sexual prime lamenting the behavior of some men during their sexual prime, when they seemingly rarely complained about it to law enforcement. Men and women are fundamentally different, and they are different sexually as well. If you provided a man the opportunity to impregnate 20 women with no attachments, probably he would end up with a sore back after a few months of activity. Yet, the women have to go through 9 months of pregnancy, something that was potentially life-threatening before modern medicine. Hence, men are generally more likely to be "pigs" as women might call them in frustration, and women are more likely to be "frigid" as men might characterize them. "I'm so hot for her, and she's so cold" as Mick Jagger put it.

    The Sexual Revolution has also put the West into demographic decline. Today's intelligentsia would be horrified if you suggested cancelling high school education for poor people, yet they are delighted to import people with few or no skills, functionally illiterate in their native language, and unable to speak the language of the countries to which they emigrate. I see no chance of Utopians ever getting their way, because they are their own worst enemies.
    "I get a lot of credit I don't deserve." -- Joe Biden

  2. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to blackjack21 For This Useful Post:

    Chris (12-28-2022),LescoBrandon (12-28-2022)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    OP has nothing to do with gays, mid. Learn to read.

    The baloney is the views of Marx, Engels, Lewis.




    Midcan is a phony intellectual and a fraud who does not even bother to debate because he imagines himself superior to conservatives on any forum.


    I suggest ignore.
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    Tahuyaman (12-28-2022)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tahuyaman View Post
    It's sad to realize that we are living in a time when the importance of the family structure needs to be explained to people.



    While I am well known as a critic of Muslim ideology the one great strength it has over the progressive left is a strong foundation in the family structure underlying the more oppressive religious edicts. While Islam may keep people in a condition more primitive and repressed than we are they have a high survivability factor going for them while the West self destruct from within.
    My Revenge will be Success! - Donald J Trump

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    Being left of center, or not conservative, does not mean that people subscribe to the theories of Marx, Engels or even Sophie Lewis. Believing in the value of a social safety net is not membership in the Socialist or Communist party. Neither does it suggest abandonment of the family structure. Very few people even bother with political theory outside of academia and I dare say, most on the left would dismiss Lewis's anti-family theory as a load of dung. Academics like Lewis carve out a career in the Social Sciences by developing goofy theories that they can then get paid to teach at University, to students who sign up for useless courses that are easy to pass, in the pursuit of degrees that are worthless.
    You can say this all you want but actions speak louder than words and the policies supported by the left are certainly not pro family. And the Safety net that is currently being offered is don't worry just keep not workig and we will take care of it so you can continue to live in poverty.

    If they believe as you stated above these things would not be happening.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zelmo1234 View Post
    You can say this all you want but actions speak louder than words and the policies supported by the left are certainly not pro family. And the Safety net that is currently being offered is don't worry just keep not workig and we will take care of it so you can continue to live in poverty.

    If they believe as you stated above these things would not be happening.
    I don't think it's an issue of beliefs but of the total lack of coordination between these various programs being offered by every level of government. That's the only way people can make more on social assistance, than by working.
    In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.



    "The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    Being left of center, or not conservative, does not mean that people subscribe to the theories of Marx, Engels or even Sophie Lewis. Believing in the value of a social safety net is not membership in the Socialist or Communist party. Neither does it suggest abandonment of the family structure. Very few people even bother with political theory outside of academia and I dare say, most on the left would dismiss Lewis's anti-family theory as a load of dung. Academics like Lewis carve out a career in the Social Sciences by developing goofy theories that they can then get paid to teach at University, to students who sign up for useless courses that are easy to pass, in the pursuit of degrees that are worthless.
    Yet believing in that safety net--more like hammock--is believing in the same things Marx, Engels or even Sophie Lewis believed in.

    If most don't know political theory--you included based on your denials--then how can you say they--or you--do not following the ideas of Marx, Engels or even Sophie Lewis?
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Yet believing in that safety net--more like hammock--is believing in the same things Marx, Engels or even Sophie Lewis believed in.

    If most don't know political theory--you included based on your denials--then how can you say they--or you--do not following the ideas of Marx, Engels or even Sophie Lewis?
    Since the existence of the welfare state precedes Marx, Engels and Lewis by a factor of almost 2,000 years, existing at the time of Augustus of Rome, the social safety net is neither a socialist nor communist notion. The fact that there are a plethora of social programs provided by multiple levels of government, none coordinated with the other, and thus subject to abuse, is not an indictment of the social safety net, but of the absence of coordination between government providers.
    In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.



    "The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    Since the existence of the welfare state precedes Marx, Engels and Lewis by a factor of almost 2,000 years, existing at the time of Augustus of Rome, the social safety net is neither a socialist nor communist notion. The fact that there are a plethora of social programs provided by multiple levels of government, none coordinated with the other, and thus subject to abuse, is not an indictment of the social safety net, but of the absence of coordination between government providers.
    The topic is Marx, Engels, Lewis being anti-family. How'd you manage to drift off into 2000 year old nonsense? Was Augustus anti-family?
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    The topic is Marx, Engels, Lewis being anti-family. How'd you manage to drift off into 2000 year old nonsense? Was Augustus anti-family?
    Try looking at what I'm responding to. Zelmo brought up the social safety net. You also weighed in - see below:
    "Yet believing in that safety net--more like hammock--is believing in the same things Marx, Engels or even Sophie Lewis believed in."

    The topic only becomes all important when your argument is failing. Christianity is also based on 2000-year-old ...
    I already stated that the views of Marx, Engels and Lewis are irrelevant to most people, though they seem to be your personal obsession and the root of everything that is wrong with society (according to you). There is no anti-family conspiracy among the left. Most people no longer live in a rural pastoral setting where they are basically related to everyone in the community. They also don't choose to have children by the dozen because they don't need to grow their own farm hands. Farm equipment changed that and women would prefer to live beyond the age of forty. People still want to be married legally or by common-law. They still have kids, but fewer because they want them to have a decent life.

    Lewis is not representative of more than a very small minority of people.
    In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.



    "The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    Try looking at what I'm responding to. Zelmo brought up the social safety net. You also weighed in - see below:
    "Yet believing in that safety net--more like hammock--is believing in the same things Marx, Engels or even Sophie Lewis believed in."

    The topic only becomes all important when your argument is failing. Christianity is also based on 2000-year-old ...
    I already stated that the views of Marx, Engels and Lewis are irrelevant to most people, though they seem to be your personal obsession and the root of everything that is wrong with society (according to you). There is no anti-family conspiracy among the left. Most people no longer live in a rural pastoral setting where they are basically related to everyone in the community. They also don't choose to have children by the dozen because they don't need to grow their own farm hands. Farm equipment changed that and women would prefer to live beyond the age of forty. People still want to be married legally or by common-law. They still have kids, but fewer because they want them to have a decent life.

    Lewis is not representative of more than a very small minority of people.

    Zelmo is referring to the damage done the family by the welfare system under LBJ's Great Society War of Poverty, not some form of welfare under Augustus.

    If the views of Marx, Engels and Lewis are irrelevant to you why are you joining a discussion about the effect of their views on the family?
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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