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Thread: West risks war with Russia over escalating military aid

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    West risks war with Russia over escalating military aid

    The Irish Times sees the West as fighting a proxy war.

    The question of whether escalation with a nuclear power worth Western involvement in Ukraine is worthy of discussion. But the globalist establishment has shut down that debate by labelling any such talk as pro-Putin.

    And the advanced tanks that Biden* refers to as defensive weapons (lol)- the West isn't supplying enough of them to matter. What's up with that?

    West risks war with Russia over escalating military aid – The Irish Times

    From day one of the war in Ukraine, the most powerful argument against unrestrained western intervention in the conflict has been the danger of catastrophic escalation into an all-out war between Nato and Russia.


    So far, western governments have shied away from a truly existential confrontation with Russia. But the threat remains that continuing western military aid to Ukraine will provoke Russian countermeasures that could turn Moscow’s proxy war with Nato into a direct military conflict.


    Western hawks have long argued the danger of escalation is illusory. In an op-ed for the New York Times, former British diplomat Nigel Gould-Davies claimed “Putin has no red lines” and that, far from being deterred by fear of escalation, the West should call Putin’s bluff and threaten Russia with nuclear retaliation if he overreacts to western support for Ukraine.


    Gould-Davies provides no hard evidence for his insights into Putin’s mind. His argument is pure speculation, and prompts the question: what if Putin won’t back away from a major war with the West? Should Nato be taking even a small risk of igniting a larger conflict that could kill millions?

    ***


    According to British historian Lawrence Freedman, writing in the Financial Times, these new supplies reflect western belief that Ukraine needs to win back more territory before Putin will be prepared to make peace.


    However, the quantity in question is relatively small. The Russians have already destroyed thousands of Ukrainian tanks and armoured vehicles. A few hundred additional western armoured units will do little or nothing to change the strategic situation. Russia’s war of attrition will grind on. In all probability, Moscow will complete its conquest of the Donbass region, thereby achieving the main goal of the so-called special military operation launched by Putin a year ago.


    The real purpose of sending this western armour to Ukraine may be to provide political cover for politicians who fear the blame game that will erupt if and when Russia wins in Ukraine.
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    I don't think anyone can deny it's a proxy war at this point.

    And a very foolhardy proxy war at that.
    ""A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul" ~George Bernard Shaw

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    German Foreign Minister Just Said The Quiet Part Out Loud On Ukraine | ZeroHedge

    German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock bluntly stated in fresh remarks that Western allies are fighting a war against Russia. The remarks came during a debate at the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe (PACE) on Tuesday amid discussions over sending Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine.


    While Baerbock's words were largely ignored in mainstream media, a number of pundits on social media noted with alarm that the German foreign minister just essentially declared war on Russia.

    German foreign minister declares war on Russia pic.twitter.com/C4cAqnZXhD
    — Michael Tracey (@mtracey) January 25, 2023
    Ironically other German officials have long sought to emphasize their country is not a party to the conflict, fearing uncontrollable escalation.
    Contradicting this official stance, Baerbock said the quiet part out loud, and introduced the comments with: "And therefore I’ve said already in the last days – yes, we have to do more to defend Ukraine. Yes, we have to do more also on tanks."


    And that's when she asserted: "But the most important and the crucial part is that we do it together and that we do not do the blame game in Europe, because we are fighting a war against Russia and not against each other.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    German Foreign Minister Just Said The Quiet Part Out Loud On Ukraine | ZeroHedge

    German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock bluntly stated in fresh remarks that Western allies are fighting a war against Russia. The remarks came during a debate at the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe (PACE) on Tuesday amid discussions over sending Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine.


    While Baerbock's words were largely ignored in mainstream media, a number of pundits on social media noted with alarm that the German foreign minister just essentially declared war on Russia.

    German foreign minister declares war on Russia pic.twitter.com/C4cAqnZXhD
    — Michael Tracey (@mtracey) January 25, 2023
    Ironically other German officials have long sought to emphasize their country is not a party to the conflict, fearing uncontrollable escalation.
    Contradicting this official stance, Baerbock said the quiet part out loud, and introduced the comments with: "And therefore I’ve said already in the last days – yes, we have to do more to defend Ukraine. Yes, we have to do more also on tanks."


    And that's when she asserted: "But the most important and the crucial part is that we do it together and that we do not do the blame game in Europe, because we are fighting a war against Russia and not against each other.”
    The Croatian President responded: he said he didn't know NATO was at war with Russia, but Croatia wants nothing to do with it. He did, however, wish Germany better luck than it had 70 years ago. lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by FindersKeepers View Post
    I don't think anyone can deny it's a proxy war at this point.

    And a very foolhardy proxy war at that.
    But one our Commander in Chief won’t be held accountable for. This isn’t Biden’s proxy war, this isn’t going to reflect in his polling. The media is all in so won’t ask difficult questions. Biden just gave Ukraine tanks and 45 billion dollars. No one…….will dare blame Biden for ANY of this.

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    Any talk of war should be very concerning simply because we are not ready. Our military has recruitment problems, thousands booted because they didn't want an experimental vaccine injected into them. The military brass and the government does not hour our soldiers backs. It's leaders are more concerned with white supremacy than China and Russia. We have the best soldiers and the best equipment. The problem is it is led by bureaucratic soy boys and a commander in chief who not only lost his marbles but continues to slip on them.





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    Quote Originally Posted by The Booman View Post
    Any talk of war should be very concerning simply because we are not ready. Our military has recruitment problems, thousands booted because they didn't want an experimental vaccine injected into them. The military brass and the government does not hour our soldiers backs. It's leaders are more concerned with white supremacy than China and Russia. We have the best soldiers and the best equipment. The problem is it is led by bureaucratic soy boys and a commander in chief who not only lost his marbles but continues to slip on them.
    It is certainly a reasonable position to say the amount of help the US and NATO is giving Ukraine puts them de facto at war with Russia. I am surprised Russia hasn't used cruise missiles against supply trains as they entered Ukraine from the west.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    It is certainly a reasonable position to say the amount of help the US and NATO is giving Ukraine puts them de facto at war with Russia. I am surprised Russia hasn't used cruise missiles against supply trains as they entered Ukraine from the west.
    I'm guessing it's only a matter of time now.
    ""A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul" ~George Bernard Shaw

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Booman View Post
    Any talk of war should be very concerning simply because we are not ready. Our military has recruitment problems, thousands booted because they didn't want an experimental vaccine injected into them. The military brass and the government does not hour our soldiers backs. It's leaders are more concerned with white supremacy than China and Russia. We have the best soldiers and the best equipment. The problem is it is led by bureaucratic soy boys and a commander in chief who not only lost his marbles but continues to slip on them.
    If the US actually got involved in the fighting in Ukraine, the force we currently have would suffice to end the Russian military threat. They army simply sucks. But then Russia has nukes.
    Last edited by Peter1469; 02-01-2023 at 06:35 AM.
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