User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 31

Thread: The Tragic South

  1. #1
    Points: 665,270, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 88.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second ClassYour first GroupOverdrive50000 Experience PointsTagger First ClassVeteran
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    Chris's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    433316
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    197,552
    Points
    665,270
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    31,984
    Thanked 80,905x in 54,720 Posts
    Mentioned
    2011 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    The Tragic South

    The South got slavery wrong, and subsidiarity right.

    The Tragic South

    ...a tragedy is a series of terrible and sorrowful events which are experienced by, and often caused by, a noble figure whose flaws bring about his own downfall and the downfall of others, including the innocent. In this sense, the South can be seen as truly tragic; its noble heart pierced and broken by the ignoble flaw which it bore within itself.

    The ignoble flaw is, of course, slavery, which nobody could or should defend. In defending slavery, the South was defending the indefensible. In nailing its colours to this ignominious mast, it was nailing itself to a cross of its own devising. As far as the issue of slavery is concerned, the South was wrong and the North was right to tell it so.

    There is, however, another issue, which it is perilous to ignore or forget. This is the principle of subsidiarity, which, in this context, is the right of a people to self-determination, the right to freedom from a government that is seen as distant and unrepresentative of the people’s will. It was the right invoked by the American colonists during the War of Independence. It is the right demanded by Scottish Nationalists when they call for Scotland’s independence from the Government of Westminster. It is the right demanded by the people of the United Kingdom and other countries in Europe when they call for independence from the draconian rule of the European Union. It is the right of one geographical area to secede from the government by another geographical area. The denial of such a right is a defence of imperialism; it is the defence of the right of one geographical area to impose its will on another without the other’s consent. On this issue the South was right.

    ...The real tragedy, however, is that the South’s tragic flaw—its defence of slavery—led to the defeat of its just demand for states’ rights and the consequent rise of an ever-burgeoning Federal Government which, as the decades passed, increased its power over the individual states so that the original concept of the nation, as envisaged by the Founding Fathers, has been entirely lost....
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

  2. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Chris For This Useful Post:

    LWW (02-03-2023),OLD GUY IN FLORIDA (01-28-2023),RMNIXON (01-28-2023)

  3. #2
    Points: 264,379, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 84.0%
    Achievements:
    50000 Experience PointsSocialVeteranTagger First ClassOverdrive
    Awards:
    Activity Award
    MisterVeritis's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    307875
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Northern Alabama
    Posts
    104,545
    Points
    264,379
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    94,661
    Thanked 39,249x in 27,870 Posts
    Mentioned
    385 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    In my opinion the only real difference between North and South was the South had a way to make slavery profitable while the North did not.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.


    I pledge allegiance to the Constitution as written and understood by this nation's founders, and to the Republic it created, an indivisible union of sovereign States, with liberty and justice for all.

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to MisterVeritis For This Useful Post:

    montana (01-28-2023)

  5. #3
    Points: 27,829, Level: 40
    Level completed: 68%, Points required for next Level: 421
    Overall activity: 31.0%
    Achievements:
    1 year registered25000 Experience Points
    OLD GUY IN FLORIDA's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    7859
    Join Date
    Sep 2021
    Location
    In Florida, I already told you that
    Posts
    8,978
    Points
    27,829
    Level
    40
    Thanks Given
    3,121
    Thanked 7,855x in 4,624 Posts
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Everyone thinks the concept of States Rights means only the right to own slaves. How tragic since it is that belief that has allowed the central government to strip us of more and more of our rights.
    Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.”
    Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

  6. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to OLD GUY IN FLORIDA For This Useful Post:

    carolina73 (02-03-2023),MisterVeritis (01-28-2023),montana (01-28-2023),Peter1469 (01-29-2023),RMNIXON (01-28-2023)

  7. #4
    Points: 665,270, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 88.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second ClassYour first GroupOverdrive50000 Experience PointsTagger First ClassVeteran
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    Chris's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    433316
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    197,552
    Points
    665,270
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    31,984
    Thanked 80,905x in 54,720 Posts
    Mentioned
    2011 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by OLD GUY IN FLORIDA View Post
    Everyone thinks the concept of States Rights means only the right to own slaves. How tragic since it is that belief that has allowed the central government to strip us of more and more of our rights.
    Right, states rights back then meant the sovereignty of states to defend their citizen's rights against usurpations by the federal government.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to Chris For This Useful Post:

    MisterVeritis (01-28-2023)

  9. #5
    Points: 27,829, Level: 40
    Level completed: 68%, Points required for next Level: 421
    Overall activity: 31.0%
    Achievements:
    1 year registered25000 Experience Points
    OLD GUY IN FLORIDA's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    7859
    Join Date
    Sep 2021
    Location
    In Florida, I already told you that
    Posts
    8,978
    Points
    27,829
    Level
    40
    Thanks Given
    3,121
    Thanked 7,855x in 4,624 Posts
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    And as I have repeatedly pointed out in the beginning you were a citizen of your state first and an American second. Prior to the War Between The States the Southern States were the richest states in the Union with Mississippi being the richest state in the country. The true reason for the war was not to end slavery but that the Northern States were attempting to deprive the Southern States of their markets by creating high tariffs on goods that may be needed.

    There were groups in the North, as well as the South, that wanted to end slavery and eventually it would have been just as indentured servants have gone away.
    Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.”
    Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

  10. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to OLD GUY IN FLORIDA For This Useful Post:

    Chris (01-28-2023),FindersKeepers (01-29-2023),The Sage of Main Street (01-28-2023)

  11. #6
    Points: 222,626, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 32.0%
    Achievements:
    Social50000 Experience PointsVeteranYour first Group
    Ethereal's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    468804
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    67,628
    Points
    222,626
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    14,219
    Thanked 41,536x in 26,005 Posts
    Mentioned
    1169 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by OLD GUY IN FLORIDA View Post
    And as I have repeatedly pointed out in the beginning you were a citizen of your state first and an American second. Prior to the War Between The States the Southern States were the richest states in the Union with Mississippi being the richest state in the country. The true reason for the war was not to end slavery but that the Northern States were attempting to deprive the Southern States of their markets by creating high tariffs on goods that may be needed.

    There were groups in the North, as well as the South, that wanted to end slavery and eventually it would have been just as indentured servants have gone away.
    And now Americans like you think you're a citizen of Ukraine. How far we've fallen.
    Power always thinks it has a great soul, and vast views, beyond the comprehension of the weak. And that it is doing God service when it is violating all His laws.
    --John Adams

  12. #7
    Points: 114,188, Level: 82
    Level completed: 18%, Points required for next Level: 2,462
    Overall activity: 61.0%
    Achievements:
    Social50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    RMNIXON's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    30557
    Join Date
    Sep 2020
    Posts
    30,802
    Points
    114,188
    Level
    82
    Thanks Given
    31,836
    Thanked 30,551x in 17,987 Posts
    Mentioned
    78 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The South should have begun a transition from slavery at the founding as was set up in the Constitution.

    We already know by example that many slaves who were actually treated well as workers went back to be employed by the very people who once owned them. The overall economy may not have been as prosperous for a time but otherwise well worth defending the liberty of all individuals in principle.
    My Revenge will be Success! - Donald J Trump

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to RMNIXON For This Useful Post:

    OLD GUY IN FLORIDA (01-28-2023)

  14. #8
    Points: 27,829, Level: 40
    Level completed: 68%, Points required for next Level: 421
    Overall activity: 31.0%
    Achievements:
    1 year registered25000 Experience Points
    OLD GUY IN FLORIDA's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    7859
    Join Date
    Sep 2021
    Location
    In Florida, I already told you that
    Posts
    8,978
    Points
    27,829
    Level
    40
    Thanks Given
    3,121
    Thanked 7,855x in 4,624 Posts
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    And now Americans like you think you're a citizen of Ukraine. How far we've fallen.
    Are you now or have you ever been on the same page as any post in the history of this forum?
    Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.”
    Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to OLD GUY IN FLORIDA For This Useful Post:

    Captdon (02-03-2023)

  16. #9
    Points: 27,829, Level: 40
    Level completed: 68%, Points required for next Level: 421
    Overall activity: 31.0%
    Achievements:
    1 year registered25000 Experience Points
    OLD GUY IN FLORIDA's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    7859
    Join Date
    Sep 2021
    Location
    In Florida, I already told you that
    Posts
    8,978
    Points
    27,829
    Level
    40
    Thanks Given
    3,121
    Thanked 7,855x in 4,624 Posts
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by RMNIXON View Post
    The South should have begun a transition from slavery at the founding as was set up in the Constitution.

    We already know by example that many slaves who were actually treated well as workers went back to be employed by the very people who once owned them. The overall economy may not have been as prosperous for a time but otherwise well worth defending the liberty of all individuals in principle.
    I believe that one reason for the actions of whites after the War Between The States is because in the minds of Southerners property was taken from them without just compensation. I firmly believe if slavery had been allowed to simply cease relations between whites and former slaves would have been much better.
    Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.”
    Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

  17. #10
    Points: 49,895, Level: 54
    Level completed: 59%, Points required for next Level: 755
    Overall activity: 42.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteran25000 Experience PointsTagger First Class
    Mini Me's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    20499
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Grass Valley, CA
    Posts
    16,698
    Points
    49,895
    Level
    54
    Thanks Given
    4,525
    Thanked 1,643x in 1,279 Posts
    Mentioned
    117 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts