Death of Christianity? Rebirth of Paganism?

[FindersKeepers]

That's what's happening, according to French philosopher, Chantal Delsol. She doesn't think atheism will replace Christianity, because she thinks people are looking for gods. She sees paganism rising instead.

We live in interesting times.

"...she observes that we have yet to fully understand what we are living through: nothing less than the death throes of a civilization that lasted 16 centuries. This slow-motion death began with the French Revolution, she argues, which—unlike the Dutch and American revolutions—produced the first civilization that did not rest on Christian assumptions. Once Christianity faced off with modernity, Delsol says, the handwriting was on the wall."

“We have returned to the typical situation of paganism: we have a state morality.” However, she does not believe attempts at cultural transformation by Christians will be successful. The die is cast and the wheels of ‘progress’ grind forward. Instead, she suggests, like the pagan communities that struggled to survive for centuries after the rise of Christianity, we have to find ways to live in this new society—as strangers in our homelands.

https://europeanconservative.com/art...hantal-delsol/

[zelmo1234]

I could see this, the bible actually speaks of it

[Chris]

European thinkers on the right that I read, like Alain de Benoist (see On Being a Pagan, The Indo-Europeans) look to paganism as a way of reestablishing European identity in its roots against an Americanizing liberal influence since WWII.

I'm watching the "Vikings" series right now, the half-historical, half-fictionalized account of Ragnar Lodbrok and his legacy. One fascinating aspect of it is when Vikings with their strong gods who control their destiny confront the new-to-them Christian God. The notion of a God who dies for man's sins symbolized by the cross really puzzles them as well it might have.

The OP link seems to be a confrontation not between Christianity and Paganism but the potential rise of Paganism in the face of modernism, or postmodernism.

Keep in mind recent discussions that have shown that while Christianity seems to be in decline in the West, it's on the rise worldwide, and, moreover, Christians tend to be above the birth replacement rate of 2.1 while seculars are below it.

An interesting quote from the OP link giving the interviewer's opinion of the interviewed French philosopher, historian, and novelist Chantal Delsol:

Unlike the majority of Christian intellectuals, however, Delsol does not believe that the collapse of Christianity will necessarily be accompanied by darkness and chaos. I would argue that this depends on how one defines “darkness and chaos.” For example, Delsol does not think abortion should be banned in a non-Christian society; but in my mind, any culture—whether explicitly Christian or not—returning to the infanticide practices of paganism is already living a dark, bloody nightmare filled with obliterated children.

The 4th century has lessons for us here as well. It was the Christian condemnation of abortion and infanticide that brought about a prohibition of these practices by Emperor Valentinian in 374 AD. Even a secular conception of human rights, however, ought to recognize that abortion is unjust to all those involved, above all the unborn human whose life is being ended. Indeed, one may reasonably argue that human beings possess human rights from the beginning of their lives, which science has incontrovertibly established begins at conception. You don’t need Christian eyes to read an embryology textbook or view an ultrasound.

[MisterVeritis]

I look to Islam as the conquering religion. We will all be slaves. Women and children hardest hit.

[RMNIXON]

I look to Islam as the conquering religion. We will all be slaves. Women and children hardest hit.

If I were betting on future dominance that would be it. A fanatical ideology that knows no borders and is instructed to convert or enslave all others while tolerant Christianity declines along with Western Civilization.


Consider that people all over the world with many isolated for centuries develop some sort of religious belief. You can't simply dismiss that impulse as prior ignorance that will simply go away. To me that is wishful thinking.

[Ethereal]

I don't think Christianity and other Abrahamic religions are going to die off, but I do see pre-Abrahamic religion having a resurgence as more people try to reconnect to nature and to something resembling tribal life. I also believe that humans are being "civilized to death", as author Christopher Ryan put it, and that Christianity, Judaism, and Islam are all religions firmly steeped in the impulse to "civilize" others and universalize their value systems via centralized governments.

[FindersKeepers]

If I were betting on future dominance that would be it. A fanatical ideology that knows no borders and is instructed to convert or enslave all others while tolerant Christianity declines along with Western Civilization.


Consider that people all over the world with many isolated for centuries develop some sort of religious belief. You can't simply dismiss that impulse as prior ignorance that will simply go away. To me that is wishful thinking.

In order to achieve future dominance, a religion would need to be aggressive, right?

Islam has shown itself to be aggressive, and so has Christianity, but if paganism is on the increase, I think that could weaken Europe's resolve.

The author of the OP is a devout Catholic and she may be seeing a trend others aren't ready to admit.

[zelmo1234]

In order to achieve future dominance, a religion would need to be aggressive, right?
Islam has shown itself to be aggressive, and so has Christianity, but if paganism is on the increase, I think that could weaken Europe's resolve.
The author of the OP is a devout Catholic and she may be seeing a trend others aren't ready to admit.

Some of the Pagan Religions were pretty aggressive too, I mean Human sacrifice is aggressive in my book

[Mister D]

In order to achieve future dominance, a religion would need to be aggressive, right?

Islam has shown itself to be aggressive, and so has Christianity, but if paganism is on the increase, I think that could weaken Europe's resolve.

The author of the OP is a devout Catholic and she may be seeing a trend others aren't ready to admit.

What trend would that be? It can't bevthe decline of Christianity in Europe. That's been a remarked upon for decades.

[Peter1469]

European thinkers on the right that I read, like Alain de Benoist (see On Being a Pagan, The Indo-Europeans) look to paganism as a way of reestablishing European identity in its roots against an Americanizing liberal influence since WWII.

I'm watching the "Vikings" series right now, the half-historical, half-fictionalized account of Ragnar Lodbrok and his legacy. One fascinating aspect of it is when Vikings with their strong gods who control their destiny confront the new-to-them Christian God. The notion of a God who dies for man's sins symbolized by the cross really puzzles them as well it might have.

The OP link seems to be a confrontation not between Christianity and Paganism but the potential rise of Paganism in the face of modernism, or postmodernism.

Keep in mind recent discussions that have shown that while Christianity seems to be in decline in the West, it's on the rise worldwide, and, moreover, Christians tend to be above the birth replacement rate of 2.1 while seculars are below it.

An interesting quote from the OP link giving the interviewer's opinion of the interviewed French philosopher, historian, and novelist Chantal Delsol:

Unlike the majority of Christian intellectuals, however, Delsol does not believe that the collapse of Christianity will necessarily be accompanied by darkness and chaos. I would argue that this depends on how one defines “darkness and chaos.” For example, Delsol does not think abortion should be banned in a non-Christian society; but in my mind, any culture—whether explicitly Christian or not—returning to the infanticide practices of paganism is already living a dark, bloody nightmare filled with obliterated children.

The 4th century has lessons for us here as well. It was the Christian condemnation of abortion and infanticide that brought about a prohibition of these practices by Emperor Valentinian in 374 AD. Even a secular conception of human rights, however, ought to recognize that abortion is unjust to all those involved, above all the unborn human whose life is being ended. Indeed, one may reasonably argue that human beings possess human rights from the beginning of their lives, which science has incontrovertibly established begins at conception. You don’t need Christian eyes to read an embryology textbook or view an ultrasound.

And another theme of the Vikings was Ragnar's (and then others) realization that for the Viking culture to survive and spread it needed to end the cultural demand for vengeance for even minor slights within the Viking society. Can't raid and conquer weaker peoples if you have too much infighting.