Ukraine - What should we do.

[carolina73]

When this battle first started I thought we should support Ukraine from being taken over by Russia. Make no mistake, at no time did I think we should have the first boot on the ground in that country. I thought our support should be to help arm them. However, after 13 months and a soul search of my position I believe we should let Ukraine fend for itself. No more money, no weapons, no aircraft, no logistical support.

As a Vietnam combat veteran I can remember clearly the arguments of why we should support South Vietnam's fight against the communist North. We were told about the Domino Effect that if Vietnam fell so would the rest of Southeast Asia. Well, 10 years later and over 50,000 dead Americans Southeast Asia did not fall and 10' of thousands of Americans and Vietnamese, both Northern and Southern lay dead or maimed, mentally and physically. We started in Vietnam with a few hundred at most "observers" and ended up with over a million American troops over those 10 years. I see the same pattern for Ukraine. We are starting to train Ukrainian troops in the US. How long before we put "handlers" on the ground to insure our training is being used. How long before we have 100's of US troops, maybe not on the battlefield but certainly in harms way.

Furthermore there are now estimated to be over 400,000 Ukrainian and Russian troops dead from the fighting. Should we be responsible for another 400,000 or more deaths because of our support? Would it not be better for both the Ukrainian and Russian mothers and wives, sisters and fathers to have their sons and daughters come home? Is Russia any more corrupt than Ukraine. Would Ukraine unduly suffer under Russian rule? Russia has been in control of Ukraine for decades in the past. How much worse was Ukraine under the Russians during that time? Is another 400,000 dead worth it to either country.

Of course, if Russia does take control of Ukraine we must help strengthen NATO to insure the fear of Russian expansionism does not happen, but that means Europe must recognize the threat to their national sovereignty and actually strengthen their own borders, just as we should recognize the threat to our own national sovereignty from the onslaught from South and Central America and increasingly from Middle Eastern countries pouring over our Southern Border.

Yes. We never have ever fought the Revolutionary War because someone might get killed.

Here comes my big eye roll.


And the Ukraine corruption is a creation of those that support Russia in this fight.

The USA is more corrupt than Ukraine is.

[OLD GUY IN FLORIDA]

I don't think it helps to label anyone as a hater or a lover of one nation or another.

I think we just look at facts, history, and consider what the people in those regions want.

I don't like him. He never has anything positive to say about this country. He is almost, but not quite as bad as Midcan5

[zelmo1234]

Well, what Putin is doing is pretty disgusting. And I understand why people want to help defend Ukraine. But I guess it depends on whether you think we should be the world's policemen or not. Is defending Ukraine in our best interest? On the one hand, I think it's a good thing that the Russians are bogged down there, it keeps them out of other mischief. But I don't like seeing the way relations between the US and Russia have deteriorated. Biden is a very offensive guy, he will talk about you like a dog if you are on the opposite side. He talks about Putin like he talks about Trump supporters.

I think ultimately it isn't worth our effort. Russia occupying Ukraine doesn't hurt us much, and if they try to attack a NATO nation that's the time to bring the hammer down. And someone needs to talk about rebuilding our military, which seems hard to believe since we spend so much money on it.

So we know or at least think that Belarus was next on his list of putting the band back together, if that is correct, what do we do when he sends in Troops there, Or due we let that one slide too and then Poland or Eastern Germany.

Where is the line in the sand?

[OLD GUY IN FLORIDA]

Yes. We never have ever fought the Revolutionary War because someone might get killed.

Here comes my big eye roll.


And the Ukraine corruption is a creation of those that support Russia in this fight.

The USA is more corrupt than Ukraine is.

Oh please. What a ridiculous post. Why should we continue pouring money into Ukraine while watching 1000's die? If Ukraine can't win they either fight to the last Ukrainian or they capitulate and Russia takes over. At least we bear no responsibility for the deaths.

[zelmo1234]

Russia isn't trying to conquer Ukraine. It's trying to prevent Ukraine from becoming a member of NATO. And it's trying to protect the ethnic Russians living in the Donbass. That's it. Nothing more.
This war was provoked by people like Lindsey Graham and Joe Biden blatantly interfering in Ukraine's internal affairs, with the express purpose of pushing liberal values to Russia's doorstep.
Why so-called "conservatives" at this forum work so hard to absolve people like Graham and Biden of responsibility is perplexing to say the least.

One would have thought that he would have waited at least until it was an option for Ukraine to be come a Nato member, because you and I know that was certainly not anywhere in the near future?

So are you saying this is a preemptive strike?

And of course once taken, now Nato Countries are even closer, better take another nations for a buffer.

I still think we use this to take Cuba, Make a deal you take one of ours close to you, we take one of your close to us.

[zelmo1234]

The nation needs to have an honest and open debate. That doesn't include labeling the not-100% in for Ukraine crowd as Putin-lovers. What are US national security interests? Of those interests, which are vital? What constraints does the US have that might limit rational decision points? A risk of nuclear war? Are risks of escalation a danger or a talking point? A risk of getting tackled by China while we spend and give so much of our ammo and arms to the shinny object that is Ukraine?

We already have "handlers" in Ukraine. US special forces. CIA teams.

A fair amount of Merc's are their too! Many that have a history of doing things for the USA that they don't want their name attached too.

[MisterVeritis]

Your hatred of America almost makes me want to change my mind and support Ukraine's desire to remain independent.

Waffle?

[carolina73]

Oh please. What a ridiculous post. Why should we continue pouring money into Ukraine while watching 1000's die? If Ukraine can't win they either fight to the last Ukrainian or they capitulate and Russia takes over. At least we bear no responsibility for the deaths.

To stop Russian expansionism is the only reason.

The same people that want to give Ukraine to the Russians are saying that we need to go to war over Taiwan. They are conducting foreign policy by opinion and ancestry.

The faster you give up on Ukraine,the sooner our kids are going to have to face Russia. They are not stopping at Ukraine regardless of what the Ukraine haters tell you. Ask Belarus. They are publicly saying they see there future as about 10 years before Russia takes full control. Ask the people of Syria if the Russians left. As the people of Georgia. They feel their government is not doing enough to stand with Ukraine. They know that Russia will be pushing South as well.

Russia wants only Crimea and Donbas is just Dumbass think.

[MisterVeritis]

To stop Russian expansionism is the only reason.

The same people that want to give Ukraine to the Russians are saying that we need to go to war over Taiwan. They are conducting foreign policy by opinion and ancestry.

The faster you give up on Ukraine,the sooner our kids are going to have to face Russia. They are not stopping at Ukraine regardless of what the Ukraine haters tell you. Ask Belarus. They are publicly saying they see there future as about 10 years before Russia takes full control. Ask the people of Syria if the Russians left. As the people of Georgia. They feel their government is not doing enough to stand with Ukraine. They know that Russia will be pushing South as well.

Russia wants only Crimea and Donbas is just Dumbass think.

Russia has managed to take about 150 kilometers of Ukraine in a year.

It is not our problem to solve.

[FindersKeepers]

To stop Russian expansionism is the only reason.

The same people that want to give Ukraine to the Russians are saying that we need to go to war over Taiwan. They are conducting foreign policy by opinion and ancestry.

The faster you give up on Ukraine,the sooner our kids are going to have to face Russia. They are not stopping at Ukraine regardless of what the Ukraine haters tell you. Ask Belarus. They are publicly saying they see there future as about 10 years before Russia takes full control. Ask the people of Syria if the Russians left. As the people of Georgia. They feel their government is not doing enough to stand with Ukraine. They know that Russia will be pushing South as well.

Russia wants only Crimea and Donbas is just Dumbass think.

Russia hasn't indicated wanting the Donbas region. In fact, the citizens of Donbas want to be independent and Russia didn't annex them as they annexed Crimea after Crimeans voted to rejoin Russia. If the Donbas region becomes independent, it would offer another buffer between Russia and the West. That would also serve as a partial buffer for Ukraine.

You know I'm not a Ukraine fan, but neither am I a Russia fan.

The more important problem (to me) is the risk to the rest of the world if we continue to interfere.

Dmitry Medvedev, the 57-year-old deputy secretary of Russia’s Security Council chaired by Putin, said in video remarks to reporters that Russia’s relations with the West have hit an all-time low.



Asked whether the threat of a nuclear conflict has eased, Medvedev responded: “No, it hasn’t decreased, it has grown. Every day when they provide Ukraine with foreign weapons brings the nuclear apocalypse closer.”

If that starts, we're all going to be sorry.