Ukraine - What should we do.

[Peter1469]

I doubt that there’s US Special Forces soldiers conducting operations inside Ukraine. Are they in Europe? Of course, just they have been for decades.

Outside of intel gathering, I agree.

[FindersKeepers]

So you are telling us that Russia was pumping passports into the country that had their own puppet in place but it was all innocent. Okay. Thanks for the laugh.

Did I say that? No, I didn't say that. Don't put false words in my mouth.

I'm saying Ukraine created the atmosphere by which Russia could walk right in and act like the savior.

Ukrainian citizens didn't start applying for Russian passports on a whim--those people were abandoned by their own country--the president they elected was overthrown, their family members were killed, then they weren't allowed to vote for Ukraine's leaders, and yet you expect them to worship the Big Z.

Americans who are so gung-ho to support Ukraine simply don't know Ukraine. That corrupt country is so far from innocent. Ukraine created the problem and now they cry to the West to bail them out.

People are dying right now because you're still living in the Red Scare past. Russia is our enemy to be sure, but what you don't realize is that Ukraine is as well. They can do massive damage to the US by dragging us into their fray.

[Ethereal]

Like Darfur?

Or Yemen.

[zelmo1234]

I have NOT picked a side. It does not matter where the eastern border of Ukraine is.

You understand that is picking a side right????

[zelmo1234]

I doubt that there’s US Special Forces soldiers conducting operations inside Ukraine. Are they in Europe? Of course, just they have been for decades.

There is likely some Spec Opps on the ground, We will never know, but with the aid we are sending, I am guessing there are a few wandering around

[zelmo1234]

Are they free to withhold taxes from the government? Yeah, didn't think so. It's pay up or die. That's the essence of "government".
Because if Americans were given an actual choice, almost none of them would support sending their money to a foreign government. They have to be bullied and pressured into it.
Ironic, isn't it? Republicans and conservatives always complaining about "socialism" and wealth "redistribution", yet they have no problem with socializing the cost of wars and militarism. Looks like they have more in common with socialists than we thought?
That you and the other pro-Kiev individuals on this board don't need me or Mister V or anyone else to support your war. You are free to support the war as much as you want to. You simply refuse to give us the freedom not to support it. You want to socialize the costs of the war because you know that you could never convince enough people to support it voluntarily. You need government to force them into it. That doesn't sound very conservative, now does it?
That is completely and utterly false. Neutrality is not isolation. In fact, you're far more isolationist than I am. You want to isolate America from Russia, from China, and from a whole host of other countries who you wrongly deem an enemy. Whereas I support robust free trade with all countries, contingent only upon the profit that Americans can accrue from the relationship. Meanwhile, you want to go around policing the world, engaged in some moral crusade, squandering our blood and treasure on pointless wars that only serve to grow government and enrich politicians.
America wasn't supposed to be "great", it was supposed to be free.

Actually I don't have a problem with not paying taxes, As you and I both believe, the government we have today is oppressive, so they may have an issue with it.

My position is really very clear, If you don't want any federal benefits, you should not have to pay taxes. But you don't ever get any benefits, no matter what.

I have always thought once should be able to opt out of Federal income tax and FICA, but they would never qualify for any assistance of any kind, that should be their choice

[zelmo1234]

Someone needs to tell the Russians that only the US government is allowed to invade other countries and kill tons of civilians.

Only if you tell them the next time we do it they can't supply those nations will military equipment?

You know that Russia and the USA have done this dance throughout history

[zelmo1234]

NATO nations.

And of course that means boots and the ground and likely more casualties than we have seen in other conflicts. I would rather stop it before then if we can.

And if Russia Does not want Nato nations on their border, why would they move their border up to the NATO nations?

[carolina73]

Did I say that? No, I didn't say that. Don't put false words in my mouth.

I'm saying Ukraine created the atmosphere by which Russia could walk right in and act like the savior.

Ukrainian citizens didn't start applying for Russian passports on a whim--those people were abandoned by their own country--the president they elected was overthrown, their family members were killed, then they weren't allowed to vote for Ukraine's leaders, and yet you expect them to worship the Big Z.

Americans who are so gung-ho to support Ukraine simply don't know Ukraine. That corrupt country is so far from innocent. Ukraine created the problem and now they cry to the West to bail them out.

People are dying right now because you're still living in the Red Scare past. Russia is our enemy to be sure, but what you don't realize is that Ukraine is as well. They can do massive damage to the US by dragging us into their fray.

Yes you did. Post #34 You put those words in your mouth and then let them out in response to my question .

That started happening a couple of years before Russia invaded Ukraine.

[carolina73]

Are they free to withhold taxes from the government? Yeah, didn't think so. It's pay up or die. That's the essence of "government".

Because if Americans were given an actual choice, almost none of them would support sending their money to a foreign government. They have to be bullied and pressured into it.

Ironic, isn't it? Republicans and conservatives always complaining about "socialism" and wealth "redistribution", yet they have no problem with socializing the cost of wars and militarism. Looks like they have more in common with socialists than we thought?



That you and the other pro-Kiev individuals on this board don't need me or Mister V or anyone else to support your war. You are free to support the war as much as you want to. You simply refuse to give us the freedom not to support it. You want to socialize the costs of the war because you know that you could never convince enough people to support it voluntarily. You need government to force them into it. That doesn't sound very conservative, now does it?



That is completely and utterly false. Neutrality is not isolation. In fact, you're far more isolationist than I am. You want to isolate America from Russia, from China, and from a whole host of other countries who you wrongly deem an enemy. Whereas I support robust free trade with all countries, contingent only upon the profit that Americans can accrue from the relationship. Meanwhile, you want to go around policing the world, engaged in some moral crusade, squandering our blood and treasure on pointless wars that only serve to grow government and enrich politicians.



America wasn't supposed to be "great", it was supposed to be free.

Nobody is taking your right to disagree our whiny little friend.

And no one here that I know of is pro-Kyiv.

For the USA this is a war of anti-Russian expansion. Ukraine just happens to be the country willing to fight for their freedom. Belarus would not be putting up the fight, so there would be no one to help. Russia could take Belarus tomorrow without a shot and any US resistance.

The only strong feelings that you hear in the USA toward the people of Ukraine is for their braveness and pride in the face of the cowardly Russians throwing prisoners at them on suicide missions and mercenaries.