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Thread: Comprehensive Immigration Reform - What is the left's promise?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FindersKeepers View Post
    That was the name of a bill passed back in 2006. It was supposed to allow long-term illegals to become legal but at the same time, increase security at the southern border. It didn't work so well. But here's the problem, and here's the reason both Democrats and Republicans are not going to close that border--because our government has created a pyramid scheme whereby we need a huge base of workers in order to support a growing class of the elderly. And, white Americans are tired of having babies and raising large families. They simply stopped doing it, so we don't have that worker base coming up.
    White Americans didn't grow tired of having and raising large families - they can no longer afford to do so. The New York Times recently studied why young people aren’t having children. Among those who said they probably would have fewer children then they considered ideal, the reasons given probably aren’t surprising. No. 1 was the cost of childcare, followed by wishing they had more time to spend with the children they already had and worries about the economy or their ability to afford children.

    https://www.deseret.com/2018/8/2/206...they-have-them


    These are money issues. White Americans aren't "tired" of having babies and raising families.
    Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect. -- Woody Hayes​

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    Quote Originally Posted by DGUtley View Post
    White Americans didn't grow tired of having and raising large families - they can no longer afford to do so. The New York Times recently studied why young people aren’t having children. Among those who said they probably would have fewer children then they considered ideal, the reasons given probably aren’t surprising. No. 1 was the cost of childcare, followed by wishing they had more time to spend with the children they already had and worries about the economy or their ability to afford children.
    https://www.deseret.com/2018/8/2/206...they-have-them

    These are money issues. White Americans aren't "tired" of having babies and raising families.

    Certainly money is one reason--for the people who want children. But for those that don't, there are other reasons. From your NYC link:

    Capture.PNG
    ""A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul" ~George Bernard Shaw

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    Quote Originally Posted by FindersKeepers View Post
    I would have no problem with that. Honestly, SS and MCare were never designed to supplement the income of the wealthy.
    I think they may also remove the income limit on paying into SS. Right now, I think it's around $147K and after you make that much (per year) they stop taking it out of your paycheck. And, if you're self-employed, you can stop paying it in.

    And yes, they do seem to like pushing back retirement age. I'm not there yet, but my plan is to never retire so I don't plan on ever drawing SS.
    Well that's a new one on me. As in every year, the IRS demands it's tithe....
    • Self-employed workers must pay both the employee and employer portions of Social Security taxes.
    "I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." -- James Madison

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    Quote Originally Posted by FindersKeepers View Post
    Certainly money is one reason--for the people who want children. But for those that don't, there are other reasons. From your NYC link:

    Attachment 56811
    You said "grew tired" - I didn't see that in there. Economics is the primary driver. Moreover, the bulk of those "young adults" seem to change their mind as they hit late 20's / early to mid 30's.
    Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect. -- Woody Hayes​

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    Quote Originally Posted by FindersKeepers View Post
    I would have no problem with that. Honestly, SS and MCare were never designed to supplement the income of the wealthy.
    I think they may also remove the income limit on paying into SS. Right now, I think it's around $147K and after you make that much (per year) they stop taking it out of your paycheck. And, if you're self-employed, you can stop paying it in.
    And yes, they do seem to like pushing back retirement age. I'm not there yet, but my plan is to never retire so I don't plan on ever drawing SS.
    Again, this is not my preferred solution.

    My grandmother who came from a well-to-do family, lived off a trust fund, and who was the widow of a well-to-do gentleman, once complained to me that Social Security payments didn't even cover the dry cleaning of her living room drapes..... of her 12th floor condo in Fort Lee NJ, overlooking the Hudson River.

    Meanwhile my father, of moderate means, passed away at 4:30pm on July 31st... and Social Security demanded the return of his Social Security payment for the month of July because he had not survived the month.
    "I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." -- James Madison

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    Quote Originally Posted by DGUtley View Post
    You said "grew tired" - I didn't see that in there. Economics is the primary driver. Moreover, the bulk of those "young adults" seem to change their mind as they hit late 20's / early to mid 30's.
    Yes, I said "grew tired," but several of the reason on the chart I posted from your link fall into that broad category, including the top one -- want more leisure time, and the fourth one -- no desire for children.

    You say "economics" is the primary driver, but even the excuses that center on finances indicate they could be choosing the third car/speedboat/vacation house over having children.

    So, it's not like you're trying to insinuate--that'd they'd love to have (more) kids if only they had the money. Kids are too expensive because they're not a top priority anymore.

    Too expensive can very well mean the couple/individual has other priorities when it comes to spending money.
    ""A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul" ~George Bernard Shaw

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    Quote Originally Posted by Collateral Damage View Post
    Again, this is not my preferred solution.

    My grandmother who came from a well-to-do family, lived off a trust fund, and who was the widow of a well-to-do gentleman, once complained to me that Social Security payments didn't even cover the dry cleaning of her living room drapes..... of her 12th floor condo in Fort Lee NJ, overlooking the Hudson River.

    Meanwhile my father, of moderate means, passed away at 4:30pm on July 31st... and Social Security demanded the return of his Social Security payment for the month of July because he had not survived the month.
    That's truly heartless.

    Truly.
    ""A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul" ~George Bernard Shaw

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    Quote Originally Posted by FindersKeepers View Post
    I would have no problem with that. Honestly, SS and MCare were never designed to supplement the income of the wealthy.

    I think they may also remove the income limit on paying into SS. Right now, I think it's around $147K and after you make that much (per year) they stop taking it out of your paycheck. And, if you're self-employed, you can stop paying it in.

    And yes, they do seem to like pushing back retirement age. I'm not there yet, but my plan is to never retire so I don't plan on ever drawing SS.
    Even if you don't retire you can draw at 67 or 67.5 I don't plan on it either.

    Remember if you take of the limit the people that pay more in will draw more out. It is kicking the can down the road, but it creates a bigger problem when you catch up to the can.

    they need to have a plan were people can opt out of traditional SS

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    Quote Originally Posted by FindersKeepers View Post
    Yes, I said "grew tired," but several of the reason on the chart I posted from your link fall into that broad category, including the top one -- want more leisure time, and the fourth one -- no desire for children. You say "economics" is the primary driver, but even the excuses that center on finances indicate they could be choosing the third car/speedboat/vacation house over having children. So, it's not like you're trying to insinuate--that'd they'd love to have (more) kids if only they had the money. Kids are too expensive because they're not a top priority anymore. Too expensive can very well mean the couple/individual has other priorities when it comes to spending money.
    No, they don't fall into the broad category of "grew tired" - "other priorities" perhaps, but not 'grew tired'. 5-6 Kids are too expensive because they're too expensive and because too many are unwilling to do without or defer self-gratification.
    Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect. -- Woody Hayes​

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    Quote Originally Posted by FindersKeepers View Post
    Yes, I said "grew tired," but several of the reason on the chart I posted from your link fall into that broad category, including the top one -- want more leisure time, and the fourth one -- no desire for children.
    You say "economics" is the primary driver, but even the excuses that center on finances indicate they could be choosing the third car/speedboat/vacation house over having children.
    So, it's not like you're trying to insinuate--that'd they'd love to have (more) kids if only they had the money. Kids are too expensive because they're not a top priority anymore.
    Too expensive can very well mean the couple/individual has other priorities when it comes to spending money.
    While I don't have (human) children of my own, in general, the next several generations have made it plain that they want to forgo material things, and are geared towards 'experiences'. Having kids usually involves having 'material' things like cars, houses, baby stuff. And, having to spend money on a child, reduces the funds they have available to pay for those 'experiences'.

    There are exceptions, my own nieces being prime examples. One is conservative (age 42), frugal with her money, and has 3 kids. The other is single (age 50), no kids, rents and is all about the 'experiences'.
    "I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." -- James Madison

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