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Thread: Time for negotiations to end the war?

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    Time for negotiations to end the war?

    The West is running out of on-hand weapons to give Ukraine. Once that flow slows enough, Ukraine is in extra-trouble.


    Ukraine’s Long-Expected Offensive: Why It Won’t Beat Putin

















    Ukraine has a complex reality it must face: U.S., UK, and EU senior leaders have voiced over the past few days strong support for Ukraine and their widely reported upcoming offensive. Reading some of the off-headline comments they’ve made, however, exposes the growing realization in the West that the hope of Zelensky accomplishing his stated objectives of driving Russia entirely out of Ukraine has a low probability of success.

    A change in Western policy, therefore, is urgently needed – before Kyiv suffers more combat losses that are unlikely to alter the fact that the war will most likely end with a negotiated settlement.

    ***

    Ukraine has suffered massive casualties over the first 14 months of this war. It is currently staffed with soldiers and leaders who have limited experience in war and only surface-level training in combined arms operations. One must not underestimate the challenge facing the UAF troops in a theater-level offensive that requires tight coordination of every unit over hundreds of kilometers, especially when no soldier, officer, or general in Ukraine has performed such a task of this magnitude.


    Second, Russia has been preparing extensive defensive positions for more than half a year almost across the entire 1,000km front. According to some U.S. analysts, the Russians have designed and built an impressive series of defensive belts that would be difficult to breach even for fully-trained Western armies. To succeed, Zelensky’s troops will have to attack this elaborate defense with limited offensive air power, limited air defense, insufficient quantities of artillery shells, and a force that is equipped with a hodge-podge of modern and antiquated armor – staffed by a mix of conscripts with no combat experience and some officers and men with basic training by NATO instructors.


    Some Ukrainian leaders are aware of the magnitude of the challenge. Ukrainian Defense Minister Oleksii Reznikov told the Washington Post last week that he was concerned that the “expectation from our counteroffensive campaign is overestimated in the world,” which he fears may lead to “emotional disappointment.” The level of success, he warned, could be as few as “ten kilometers.” What the Defense Minister didn’t address, however, is what would come next.


    Even if Ukraine again exceeded Western expectations and captured 50 or 100km of territory, the number of casualties they will have suffered would be high under any scenario, leaving the Ukrainian Armed Forces weaker then than they are today. As described above, it is very unlikely the West could replace lost equipment or provide enough ammunition to sustain the Ukrainians for the rest of this year, and according to the Washington Post, in addition to the 300,000 troops Russia presently has in Ukraine, there are another 200,000 poised just across the border.


    Once the Ukrainian offensive has played out – regardless of how successful they may or may not have been – a Russian counterattack would almost certainly follow. Ukraine would then be vulnerable, for many months, to such an attack as they would have even fewer artillery shells, air defense missiles, and troops. As this sober analysis makes plain, these are towering challenges that stand in the way of a victorious and decisive Ukrainian spring offensive.


    If that is the case, then the chances of Zelensky ever accomplishing his objectives of forcing Russia out of Ukraine are highly improbable. The most likely outcome is that the war will continue on regardless of this offensive, but over time the conditions will continue tilting in Russia’s direction. Eventually, Kyiv will likely be compelled to seek a negotiated end to the fighting. The West should recognize this probability – now – and begin privately supporting such an outcome with Ukrainian officials. Refusing to take such actions in the hope that Ukraine produces a major battlefield victory could condemn Kyiv to a much worse deal later.


    ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ


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    I think that is what the planned offensive will be, if they can be successful and drive the Russians back it would be a great time to try and put an end to the conflict

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    Putin would see negotiations to end the war as a defeat.
    When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.“ - Benjamin Franklin.


    “When people get used to preferential treatment equal treatment seems like discrimination.” - Thomas Sowell

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    Quote Originally Posted by zelmo1234 View Post
    I think that is what the planned offensive will be, if they can be successful and drive the Russians back it would be a great time to try and put an end to the conflict
    Yes, they need to give their offensive a chance just for more possible power at the table.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tahuyaman View Post
    Putin would see negotiations to end the war as a defeat.
    He should conjure up a better army.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    He should conjure up a better army.
    They don’t get plucked out of thin air.
    When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.“ - Benjamin Franklin.


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    Quote Originally Posted by zelmo1234 View Post
    I think that is what the planned offensive will be, if they can be successful and drive the Russians back it would be a great time to try and put an end to the conflict
    Does Ukraine have the ability to mount an effective offensive operation?
    When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.“ - Benjamin Franklin.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Tahuyaman View Post
    Does Ukraine have the ability to mount an effective offensive operation?
    Even if they do, will they be a spent force afterwards?

    Western nations are getting close to having nothing left to give them.
    ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ


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    Quote Originally Posted by Tahuyaman View Post
    Does Ukraine have the ability to mount an effective offensive operation?
    Let's see. The US and its coerced NATO allies have equipped and nominally trained between nine and twelve maneuver brigades. That is the part that is seen. A maneuver brigade requires fuel, ammunition, food, communications for echelons above the brigade as well as the other service support requirements. Where are the vast stocks of supplies needed to sustain an offensive operation? Fuel, ammunition, and food are bulky and require hundreds of transport trucks operating on open main and alternate supply routes. Keeping the routes open requires military police, engineering assets, good communications and a competent support command and staff.

    So to support the 5,000 soldiers in the largest maneuver brigade at least another thousand supporting troops are needed to keep the food, fuel, and ammunition flowing. Does Ukraine have them? Are they trained and competent enough to keep the offensive moving?

    The offensive will have to breech prepared defenses in depth. That requires engineers to support the scheme of maneuver. One should expect heavy losses.

    I am skeptical.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.


    I pledge allegiance to the Constitution as written and understood by this nation's founders, and to the Republic it created, an indivisible union of sovereign States, with liberty and justice for all.

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    So are the Ukrainians delaying their offensive over Bakhmut, or do they think they can't actually conduct a major offensive?
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