Is the Tide Turning on Religious Belief?

[Mister D]

Yes, we know, atheism is at best nihilistic.

The question however was not how atheism accounts for evil but how atheists do.

There is no difference in the way anyone speaks of evil.

Correct. Atheism is nihilistic. Now, the usual suspects will flip out because they take it to mean they are nihilists. It becomes tiresome.

[Dr. Who]

Ethereal is correct. In that case, what's right and wrong is a matter of competing desires, ideas and agendas. How coud it be anything more?

While right and wrong or good and bad may not always be absolutes, if we consider harm as the metric for distinguishing the difference, then despite competing desires, ideas, agendas, and ethical dilemmas, we can generally comport ourselves in a moral fashion.

[Mister D]

While right and wrong or good and bad may not always be absolutes, if we consider harm as the metric for distinguishing the difference, then despite competing desires, ideas, agendas, and ethical dilemmas, we can generally comport ourselves in a moral fashion.

You and others may decide "harm" will be your metric and conduct yourselves according to your decision but not according to the truth because there isn't any. Harm is not evil, immoral, wrong or bad. Seriously, I'm not sure how many different ways this can be explained.

[Chris]

While right and wrong or good and bad may not always be absolutes, if we consider harm as the metric for distinguishing the difference, then despite competing desires, ideas, agendas, and ethical dilemmas, we can generally comport ourselves in a moral fashion.

But that fails to address his point:

Absent a metaphysical basis, any claim of moral propriety loses all meaning. It's simply one of many competing assertions vying for dominance.

We've argued this many times in the past and no other accounting has been offered.

[Dr. Who]

Correct. Atheism is nihilistic. Now, the usual suspects will flip out because they take it to mean they are nihilists. It becomes tiresome.

Perhaps that's because nihilism is the belief that life has no inherent meaning or purpose. All nihilists may be atheists but all atheists are not nihilists. Most atheists do believe that their lives have purpose and meaning and that morality and values are relevant, so atheism is not inherently nihilistic. Most atheists simply don't believe that purpose, meaning, morals and values have a supernatural source. You would do better suggesting that most atheists are existentialists.

[Dr. Who]

You and others may decide "harm" will be your metric and conduct yourselves according to your decision but not according to the truth because there isn't any. Harm is not evil, immoral, wrong or bad. Seriously, I'm not sure how many different ways this can be explained.

"Harm is not evil, immoral, wrong or bad" only if you are a nihilist. All atheists are not nihilists.

[Mister D]

Perhaps that's because nihilism is the belief that life has no inherent meaning or purpose. All nihilists may be atheists but all atheists are not nihilists. Most atheists do believe that their lives have purpose and meaning and that morality and values are relevant, so atheism is not inherently nihilistic. Most atheists simply don't believe that purpose, meaning, morals and values have a supernatural source. You would do better suggesting that most atheists are existentialists.

"Harm is not evil, immoral, wrong or bad" only if you are a nihilist. All atheists are not nihilists.

[Mister D]

But that fails to address his point:



We've argued this many times in the past and no other accounting has been offered.

We're not going to get one.

[Dr. Who]

But that fails to address his point:



We've argued this many times in the past and no other accounting has been offered.

The point was addressed - I simply disagree that absent a metaphysical basis, any claim of moral propriety loses all meaning. You are free to disagree with my original response to that statement but not to suggest that it wasn't addressed i.e.:

"I don't believe that. I think that morality still has meaning absent the metaphysical in that the principles that distinguish right from wrong can be reasoned and in combination with the development of a sense of empathy act to guide one's actions."

[Chris]

Perhaps that's because nihilism is the belief that life has no inherent meaning or purpose. All nihilists may be atheists but all atheists are not nihilists. Most atheists do believe that their lives have purpose and meaning and that morality and values are relevant, so atheism is not inherently nihilistic. Most atheists simply don't believe that purpose, meaning, morals and values have a supernatural source. You would do better suggesting that most atheists are existentialists.

You're confusing nihilistic with nihilist. Atheism is nihilistic in that it offers no account of evil or morality or even meaning in life.

Sure, atheists might find answers elsewhere, though where, that's sort of the point in asking atheists how they account for evil, the most common answer to which it is found in man's choices, which is, at least in the West, derived from Christian views of evil and free will.