Is the Tide Turning on Religious Belief?

[Standing Wolf]

Deep, everyone knows there is no afterlife, but death seems such a waste. I'm enjoying this often tragic comedy and would miss it if there were a heaven or whatever. I'd want back for its all I know. So pick the belief system that best fits your person. I'm in for reincarnation. LOL But would I be me and still enjoy the comedy. Hmmmm....

"When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind." Krishnamurti

I don't believe the "violence" to which he referred is really what most of us think of when we hear the word, but simply all the minor conflicts, anxieties and problems that each of us encounters every day as part of a normal life. I believe you have to keep in mind that Krishnamurti came from a religious tradition that considers even the separation between two individual human beings to be an illusion - one to be overcome. There is nothing that is any more intrinsically "violent" about recognizing one's ancestry, nationality, gender, etc., than there is in acknowledging that you and I are separate people; it's just what people sometimes do with that information that causes problems. The barriers and conflicts created by pridefulness and tribalism are not inevitable.

[Ethereal]

Whether you call it "god" or "reason" or "truth", it's all based on something transcendental.

[Chris]

I don't know what you want. There is no higher authority responsible for the development of morals and values. There is our capacity for reason and empathy and the development of language and writing to inscribe our ideals.

That higher authority has been replaced by the State and Statism.

From to = progress.

[Standing Wolf]

What set of facts or observations would logically follow from pink flying unicorns?

I'm not sure what you're asking. Do you mean what facts or observations would lead one to believe in them? If I saw one, that would certainly count as an "observation" and of course their existence would, at least as far as I was concerned, then be a verified fact. Not sure how it would work in the other direction.

[Standing Wolf]

Yes, we know, atheism is at best nihilistic.

The question however was not how atheism accounts for evil but how atheists do.

There is no difference in the way anyone speaks of evil.

So you discount the centuries of Christian teaching concerning the existence and malevolent influence of a very real Satan, along with the belief in that being held my millions to this day, because you watched a Russell Crowe movie?

[Mister D]

So you discount the centuries of Christian teaching concerning the existence and malevolent influence of a very real Satan, along with the belief in that being held my millions to this day, because you watched a Russell Crowe movie?

No, he's saying that everyone here is using it the same way. Do you seriously believe anyone asked you to explain the reality of Satan? Really? Let that sink in. Did you really believe that?

[Standing Wolf]

You're still not getting it and I'm wondering if it's deliberate at this point. Atheism cannot account for bad acts because there aren't any bad acts. This was explained in Post #279 and it was explained again by Ethereal in Post #322.

If a belief in God is the key to being able to distinguish between bad and good, evil and virtue, how is it that all Christians do not agree on what constitutes a bad act? To an even greater extent, adherents of different theistic religions - Christianity, Judaism, Islam - certainly sometimes differ in the matter of what is or is not to be considered "bad".

[Mister D]

If a belief in God is the key to being able to distinguish between bad and good, evil and virtue, how is it that all Christians do not agree on what constitutes a bad act? To an even greater extent, adherents of different theistic religions - Christianity, Judaism, Islam - certainly sometimes differ in the matter of what is or is not to be considered "bad".

No one said that, Wolf. No one implied it. No one said anything remotely like it. Seriously, it's almost like you don't want to understand.

[Chris]

So you discount the centuries of Christian teaching concerning the existence and malevolent influence of a very real Satan, along with the belief in that being held my millions to this day, because you watched a Russell Crowe movie?

It was an analogy to explain how exorcism could well be psychological and Satan a metaphor. Mocking it doesn't make it mockery, it only gives you opinion.


(Damn! I though he was going to ignore me. )

[Standing Wolf]

I know this will be "arrogant" and "condescending" but this is a pointless exercise. If she doesn't understand by now it's because she simply doesn't want to.

Who understands your "arguments" and assertions - we all do. They are essentially self-serving nonsense. Your insistence on judging and dismissing the worldview of others solely on the grounds that that worldview does not conform to your own, and then apparently feeling the need to disparage them as a result of their "failure" to accept your distorted assessment of their thinking, is typical of your inability to discuss this topic in good faith.