A victory has been secured by Ukraine. It's just not for Ukraine.

[TheLiquidGuy]

For me, the objective was to impose consequences on Russia. To show them that there will always be a heavy price to pay for the violent mugging their own neighbors. That price has been paid already.

-The ruble is practically worthless.
-NATO has doubled it's border with Russia thanks to Finland's induction. And soon Sweden.
-Tens of thousands of Russian citizens are dead
-Pariah status and isolation from the rest of the world and loss of good will.
-The black see fleet flag ship, along with other major ships have been destroyed.
-Putin can no longer travel to any ICC countries.

Also, it seems likely that Russia will soon be unable to keep the Sevastopol port safe either. If Ukraine acts quickly, they may be able to destroy more assets, thanks to the recent degradation of air defense in Crimea.

Ukraine has a victory. It's just not for Ukraine.



Have I missed anything?

[Mister D]

Yes, Russia's primary war aim was the elimination of a sovereign Ukraine. That doesn’t look like it's going to happen.

[ukrkoz]

No. You hit the nail on the head. Excellent work recounting all the "Russia lost" points from media.
Feel better? Made you happier? Puffed up with national pride?
Back in the USSR, we had a saying. He, who laughs last, has the best laugh. Then, we changed it. He who laughs over the last one, has the best laugh. Just give it about a year or two, and check, who's laughing over the last one.

[MisterVeritis]

...Have I missed anything?

Russia holds the ground.

[Tahuyaman]

MV gets upset when people don’t heap praise on his beloved Russia.

[MisterVeritis]

MV gets upset when people don’t heap praise on his beloved Russia.

Your obsessive attention to me is creepy. You are homosexual, aren't you?

[TheLiquidGuy]

Yes, Russia's primary war aim was the elimination of a sovereign Ukraine. That doesn’t look like it's going to happen.

I'd like to believe that was their goal and that Ukraine managed to deny that. It's possible. Russia has proven crass enough to do that. But there are pretty good arguments that can be made for and against it.

I honestly can't think of a good reason for them to invade.

- Denazification was never really their goal. Although too many still think that was a real motive.
- Stopping violence against ethnic Russians was also a fake excuse.
- Keeping Ukraine out of NATO might have been a real goal of Russia. But they already achieved that goal when they annexed Crimea. They didn't need to invade in 2022. As long as there is a territorial dispute, Ukraine will not be able to join NATO. So as long as Ukraine claims Crimea, no NATO.

Some say the goal was to secure a land bridge to Crimea, and to strengthen the connection to the all-important Sevastopol port. But they already have the Kerch Bridge. And no one was threatening it.

[TheLiquidGuy]

Russia holds the ground.

They do. And they probably will in the south. But that's not the point.
Russia must be made to suffer when they violate international law. There must be a deterrent. And the world has shown them that violently annexing your neighbor is no longer free.

That reminds me. Russia has also lost hundreds of billions of dollars that other nations have frozen and seized.

[TheLiquidGuy]

No. You hit the nail on the head. Excellent work recounting all the "Russia lost" points from media.
Feel better? Made you happier? Puffed up with national pride?
Back in the USSR, we had a saying. He, who laughs last, has the best laugh. Then, we changed it. He who laughs over the last one, has the best laugh. Just give it about a year or two, and check, who's laughing over the last one.

You sound upset.


I am not trying to sooth myself by pointing out the down side for Russia.


I am just pointing out that Russia is suffering consequences. And it is vitrally important that they do suffer. If they dont, it opens the door to a repeat performance.

[LWW]

No. You hit the nail on the head. Excellent work recounting all the "Russia lost" points from media.
Feel better? Made you happier? Puffed up with national pride?
Back in the USSR, we had a saying. He, who laughs last, has the best laugh. Then, we changed it. He who laughs over the last one, has the best laugh. Just give it about a year or two, and check, who's laughing over the last one.

That’s what Vladimir Vladimirovich said a year or two ago.