Capitalism vs. Socialism

[AmazonTania]

You know, sometimes people disagree with me, and usually they have a good reason to. Whether they're intellectually inferior, jet lagged, suffering from massive head trauma. You know, it happens. But aside from always being wrong, they generally like to repeat the same misconceptions over and over again. But for once, I'd like to have someone disagree with me without sounding like a total buffoon. So maybe I can actually get somewhere with this particular topic. I'd like to have an open discussion on Socialism and Capitalism. Or rather, why you would prefer Capitalism over Socialism, or Socialism over Capitalism.

Before we start the discussion, I think its fair to point out a view of my positions on the matter

1) I've generally aligned with various political/economic points of view. Ranging from Libertarian, Independent, Austrian, Voluntarist, Liberal (Yeah, I said that) and Objectionist. Somehow without advocating any particular point of view, I've always seem to be aligned with one of these schools of thought. While it's certainly debatable which ideological I subscribe to, its pretty straight forward that I am a capitalist.

2) I am a supporter of Private Property Rights and the Rule of Law, which are fundamental building blocks of Capitalism. One of these alone cannot work.

3) I am pro Big Business, as well as pro Corporation. Corporations and Big Business serve a vital roll in the economy to serve people with the goods and services that they all enjoy.

4) As a supporter of Corporations, I believe corporations should have legal personality and should be considered people for purposes of the law.

5) I have absolutely zero problem with monopolies existing. The only issue are the Government Granted Monopolies.

6) Income Inequality isn't really that much of a big deal. Really, it isn't...

I think these topics are good enough to start with for now. Now that everyone knows my position, I would like to know how socialist feel about these particular issues. If you are a socialist, do you agree or disagree? Looking forward to having some sort of meaningful dialogue with resident socialist such as @Alyosha, @Green Arrow, @Codename Section, and the rest of you freaks =D

[KC]

I think you mean "objectivist," if you mean the philosophical and economic principles of Ayn Rand.

[AmazonTania]

Whatever...

[Chris]

Clarification, please.

Franz Oppenheimer, The State, distinguishes " two fundamentally opposed means whereby man, requiring sustenance, is impelled to obtain the necessary means for satisfying his desires." He proposes "to call one’s own labor and the equivalent exchange of one’s own labor for the labor of others, the 'economic means' for the satisfaction of needs, while the unrequited appropriation of the labor of others will be called the 'political means.'"

If what you support in your OP is the economic means of acquiring what one wants--capitalism, free market capitalism, as opposed to the political means--corporatism, state capitalism, then I have little to no disagreement with your position. #5 hints you do.

So would you clarify.

[Cthulhu]

The only beef I have with your list is corporations.

I've given this some thought and I had decided that the concept of a corporation is inherently...evil.

My reason for this is as an artificial entity, it makes real world decisions in lieu of a real human being. Now under the current system of incorporating, a bankrupt corporation shields the owners and operators from civil actions because it is a legal fiction bullet sponge.

I think that if the concept of a corporation didn't happen, we'd see less irresponsibility and corruption from big business - because their bacon is literally on the line.

When your bacon is on the line you may tend to be a little more cautious, but I think that you'll also be much more willing to not break the laws or do unscrupulous things.

But before we proceed further it might be helpful to define what exact you perceive as a socialist and capitalist.

[Codename Section]

I'm a socialist because I don't like Walmart and prefer target? Huh. So what does it make me that I prefer football to hockey?

[AmazonTania]

Clarification, please.

Franz Oppenheimer, The State, distinguishes " two fundamentally opposed means whereby man, requiring sustenance, is impelled to obtain the necessary means for satisfying his desires." He proposes "to call one’s own labor and the equivalent exchange of one’s own labor for the labor of others, the 'economic means' for the satisfaction of needs, while the unrequited appropriation of the labor of others will be called the 'political means.'"

If what you support in your OP is the economic means of acquiring what one wants--capitalism, free market capitalism, as opposed to the political means--corporatism, state capitalism, then I have little to no disagreement with your position. #5 hints you do.

So would you clarify.

The only monopolies I have an issue with are Government Granted Monopolies. Which are monopolies which are formed through government backing, licensing, etc.

Seems fairly self explanatory.

[AmazonTania]

I'm a socialist because I don't like Walmart and prefer target? Huh. So what does it make me that I prefer football to hockey?

I actually don't know why I threw your name in the loop.

Maybe I was thinking about that IX guy...

[Chris]

The only monopolies I have an issue with are Government Granted Monopolies. Which are monopolies which are formed through government backing, licensing, etc.

Seems fairly explanatory.

Just wanted to be sure.

I think when people say they are against corporations, it's the use of political means of some in collusion with government they're against. I don't think they realize it's the misguided practice of earnings guidance that turns them into the sort of joint stock companies Adam Smith criticized.

Anyway, have at it. If you need some help, let me know. :-D


Socialists here: Green Arrow, Who, Gorilla, Polly...kilgram.

[Ethereal]

I'm a socialist because I don't like Walmart and prefer target? Huh. So what does it make me that I prefer football to hockey?

Yea, you socialist $#@!!