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Thread: Iraq 2003-2007

  1. #181
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    Bob's Avatar Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akula View Post
    Israel is our shield? What are you talking about?
    Israel pulls the strings and the u.s. politicians dance like puppets.
    Democrats dance. Exception is Eric Cantor

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    You don't care about history
    I didn't say that, did I? If you're going to be dishonest I'm not going to continue.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    We don't actually know if the protests during Vietnam worked or not. It is easy to assume that is the cause, but with the way the president during Johnson waged war, there was no way to end on top.
    I never said they were the ONLY reason...but they had an effect. When tens of thousands of people protest every day nationwide for several years...it has an effect. believe that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    Nixon stated he would end it. And he did. If he responded to demonstrations, he sure fooled me.
    Read some more history...Nixon escalated the war and invaded cambodia and laos....When he saw HUNDREDS of thousands of people were protesting nationwide and congress held hearings on the "war powers act", he backed out.


    If you would, read every one carefully and note the dates. It will show where you made your errors.

    Here's the site;
    http://www.landscaper.net/timelin.htm

    31 Oct 68 - President Johnson announced he would halt all bombing of N. Vietnam on 1 Nov 68. The B-52 bombing halt was maintained until 15 Apr 72. The US bombing "sorties" were shifted to Laos 1 Nov 68 on through 1972 -- over 25,000 sorties were flown, with the most occurring in 1971
    End 1968 - "Draftees" accounted for 38% of all American troops in Vietnam. Over 12% of the draftees were college graduates
    18 Jan 69 - Expanded peace talks open in Paris with representatives of the US, S. Vietnam, N. Vietnam, and the National Liberation Front (NLF)

    20 Jan 69 - "The greatest honor history can bestow is the tittle of 'peacemaker'. . . after a period of confrontation we are entering an era of negotiation." President Richard Nixon during his Inaugural Address


    5 Apr 69 - The only major anti-war demonstration in the early months of the Nixon presidency occurred April 5th and 6th


    Spring 69 - During 1973 Senate hearings, it was revealed that secret bombings started a year before the 30 Apr 70 incursion into Cambodia


    8 May 69 - "10-point peace plan" offered in Paris by the NLF and endorsed by Hanoi


    14 May 69 - President Nixon, during a policy address on Vietnam, proposes an "8-point peace plan" that would include mutual withdrawal of all non-Vietnamese forces to designated bases over a 12-month period, after which remaining troops would be totally withdrawn from S. Vietnam


    Mid-69 - President Nixon abandoned the idea of a "purely military victory", started bringing US troops home, and talked of a "Vietnamization" program to prepare the S. Vietnamese to take over the US combat role. Withdrawals announced: 8 Jun - 25,000 and 16 Sep - 35,000


    3 Sep 69 - Ho Chi Minh dies


    15 Oct 69 - "Vietnam Moratorium" - An estimated 1 million Americans across the US participated in anti-war demonstrations, protest rallies and peace vigils. 50 members of the US Congress also participated


    3 Nov 69 - President Nixon says he plans withdrawal of all US troops on a secret timetable


    19 Nov 69 - Congress gave the president the authority to institute the "draft lottery" system aimed at inducting 19-year-olds before older men. Nixon signed the bill into law 26 Nov 69. Under the new law the period of prime eligibility was reduced from 7 years to 1 year. Maximum eligibility would begin on a man's 19th birthday and end on his 20th birthday


    1 Dec 69 - The first draft lottery in 27 years was held at Selective Service Headquarters in Washington, DC


    2 Dec 69 - US House approved (334-55) a resolution endorsing Nixon's efforts to achieve "peace with justice", following a 2 day debate. This was the first major Vietnam policy declaration since the 1964 Gulf of Tonkin resolution


    8 Dec 69 - Chief US negotiator Henry Cabot Lodge and his deputy resigned, expressing pessimism concerning the course of the negotiations


    15 Dec 69 - President Nixon announced the reduction of another 50,000 troops by mid-April 1970


    18 Dec 69 - Senator John Cooper (R-KY), after several attempts, succeeded in limiting US activities in Laos and Thailand when a bill including $23.2 Billion for Vietnam war activities prohibited introduction of US combat troops into Laos and Thailand


    End 69 - A year of ever widening divisions in the US. The "silent majority" and "middle America" were pitted against the war protestors. Vice President Agnew called protestors "impudent snobs"


    Jan 70 - "Washington Monthly Magazine" described an intelligence network of "nearly 1,000 plain clothes investigators working out of some 200 offices from coast to coast" who wrote reports on "political protests of all kinds". The domestic intelligence operation stored and disseminated information on both groups and individuals who "might cause trouble of the US Army." Senator Ervin reported in December 1970 that he was informed the surveillance included 800 Illinois citizens including Senator Adlai Stevenson, III (D-ILL), Rep. Abner Mikua (D-ILL) and US Circuit Judge Otto Kerner. Ervin said "apparently anyone who in the Army's definition was 'left of center' was a prospective candidate for political surveillance." During lengthly Senate hearings on the Army's activities, Defense Secretary Laird ordered the spying stopped.

    21 Feb 70 - A presidential commission recommends the institution of an all-volunteer Army and elimination of the draft


    Mar/Apr 70 - News of increased US involvement in Laos and Cambodia surfaced when 1969 Senate transcripts were made public


    20 Apr 70 - President Nixon announces during a TV address, the withdrawal of another 150,000 troops over the next 12 months. This reduction would lower US troop strength to 284,000


    23 Apr 70 - President Nixon calls for far-reaching draft reform. Nixon also issued an Executive Order that ended all occupational deferments and most paternity deferments, with "extreme hardship" as the only exception


    30 Apr 70 - President Nixon sent US forces into Cambodia, causing widespread war protest in the streets, and plunging Congress into a session-long debate over Congressional war powers


    2 May 70 - Senators McGovern, Hughes, Cranston, Goodell, and Hatfield announced they planned to introduce an "end the war" amendment which would work by suspending funds for military operations in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia


    4 May 70 - 4 Kent State college students were shot to death by Ohio National Guardsmen during an anti-war protest on the campus. This lead to widening anti-war protests


    9 May 70 - A peaceful anti-war rally held at the Ellipse in Washington, DC was attended by about 80,000 people including about 10 members of Congress


    31 Aug 70 - During debate over the McGovern-Hatfield Amendment in the US Senate, Senator Eagleton (D-MO) and Javits (R-NY) said that the Nixon policy of gradual de-escalation was leading to a wider war in Indochina. Senator Church said the Congress needed to keep pressure on President Nixon to hasten the withdrawal. Senators Scott (R-PA) and Thurmond (R-SC) expressed concern over the fate of US P.O.W.'s and bargaining pressure if US troops were removed


    1 Sep 70 - The McGovern-Hatfield Amendment, providing for the withdrawal of all US troops by 31 Dec 71, was defeated by the Senate now and again later


    1970 - War Powers - By the time Congress learned that the naval incident leading to the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution (1964) had been misrepresented and moved to repeal the resolution in 1970, President Nixon had already shifted to another legal rationale -- his constitutional powers as "Commander in Chief" -- for his Vietnam policies. In its 1969 "national commitments" resolution, the Senate made a bid to reassert a congressional voice in decisions committing the US to the defense of foreign countries. The House passed war-powers measures in 1970, 1971 and 1972.



    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    I don't know your age. Do you know my age? Were you around for FDR as I was?
    No, and I'm not talking down to you, am I?

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    You see Jews, I see Democrats other than Eric Cantor.
    Ok..whatever..they're jewish democrats...who think white christians are unclean and goyim.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    Those Jews whom are Democrats actually are part of making law.
    Pssst...that's what legislators do. Democrats and republicans.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    They play no role in deciding matters for Israel.
    Are you trying to be funny or dishonest? No one ever said our legislators pass laws in israel. What the hell are you talking about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    Israel has fought the Arabs. Won every war.
    Right. With our help. Go look up how much money we give to israel every year...and where do you think they get their weapons from? Us.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    Today, Arabs seem to me more interested in tossing out their government or trying to get government since they tossed them out than interested in Israel
    muzzies are WAY more interested in killing the invaders though...that would be us.
    We fight the muzzies for israel by proxy.

  4. #184
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    @Akula What I can't understand is the attitude common among American Evangelicals. I don't think you will find a more pro-Israel demographic anywhere in the world yet American Jews fear and despise what we call the "Christian Right". It's odd.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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  6. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    @Akula What I can't understand is the attitude common among American Evangelicals. I don't think you will find a more pro-Israel demographic anywhere in the world yet American Jews fear and despise what we call the "Christian Right". It's odd.
    I don't understand the dynamic either. It does seem a bit off, though.
    Beats me.

  7. #186
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    The Sage of Main Street's Avatar Senior Member
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    There's No "Us" in U. S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Akula View Post
    Israel is our shield? What are you talking about?
    Israel pulls the strings and the u.s. politicians dance like puppets.
    Big Oil pulls the strings to protect jihadist OPEC, which enables "our" oil companies to charge us at least a dozen times what the oil is worth. We live under a Big Oil Occupied Government. You are afraid both to recognize Islam as our mortal enemy and to stand up to our petrocrats, who must have their property confiscated for treason. Anti-Semitism Always Leaves a Yellow Stain.
    On the outside, trickling down on the Insiders

    We won't live free until the Democrats, and their voters, live in fear.

  8. #187
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    At That Time, Bearded Longhairs Couldn't Get Hired, Proving They Were Trustfundies

    Quote Originally Posted by Akula View Post
    I'm aware that the only (peaceful) way to affect govt is to protest en masse and keep it up. It worked for the Vietnam war, didn't it...eventually.
    You think I'm 12 years old or something? I know exactly how the government works. .
    The Vietnam protests had the opposite effect. Disempowered Middle America, the silenced majority, recognized that the "anti-war" cult comprised privileged degenerate snobs. Not knowing much about the war, normal people figured that if spoiled degenerate punks like that were against it, it must be right.

    The focus of the rich-kid Vietnik movement was to show off to their Corporate Big Shot Daddies that they too hated the working class. So they called the working-class soldiers "baby-killers" in order to put them down. That's what that preppy tantrum was all about, despite the media-created myth that this cult helped end the war. Instead of what self-appointed experts tell you to think about that New Age eruption, the refusal of the enemy to quit and the absolute cowardice of the South Vietnamese made even the hawks realize that the war was impossible to win. The present Left glorifies itself with that myth, while the Right supports it as a "stab in the back" theory. Hippy = Yuppy = Preppy. QED.
    On the outside, trickling down on the Insiders

    We won't live free until the Democrats, and their voters, live in fear.

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