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Thread: 'Michael Sandel Against Market Society'

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    midcan5's Avatar Senior Member
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    'Michael Sandel Against Market Society'

    "Free economic transactions are supposed to benefit both the buyer and the seller, so why not allow prostitution, vote buying, pay-to-immigrate, selling ad space on your house or body, and premium versions of everything for those willing to pay more? Sandel thinks that these practices are degrading even if uncoerced, and argues that classical liberalism – by trying to maintain neutrality on philosophical questions like “what is the good?”–doesn’t have the resources to prevent rampant and undesirable commodification."


    http://www.partiallyexaminedlife.com...ichael-sandel/


    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/037..._li_tl?ie=UTF8


    "Capitalism is the ownership and use of the concrete but dynamic elements in a society - what is commonly known as the means of production. A capitalist is someone who produces more capital through the production of the means he owns. This necessitates the periodic reinvestment of part of the capital earned into the repair, modernization and expansion of the means. Capitalism is therefore the ownership of an abstraction called capital, rendered concrete by its ownership of the means of production, which through actual production creates new capital.... However, capitalism as conceived today tends to revolve around something called the profit motive, even though profit is neither a cause of capitalism nor at the heart of the capitalist action. Profit is a useful result of the process, nothing more. As for the ownership of the means of production, this has been superseded by their management. And yet, to manage is to administer, which is a bureaucratic function. Alternately, there is a growing reliance upon the use of capital itself to produce new capital. But that is speculation, not production. Much of the development of the means of production is now rejected as unprofitable and, frankly, beneath the dignity of the modern manager, who would rather leave such labour and factory-intensive "dirty" work to Third World societies. Finally , the contemporary idea of capitalism grandly presents "service" as its new sophisticated manifestation. But the selling of one's own skills is not a capitalist art. And most of the jobs being created by the service industries are with the exception of the high-technology sector descendants of the pre-eighteenth-century commerce in trade and services." p360 'Voltaire's $#@!s: The Dictatorship of Reason in the West' John Ralston Saul


    '24/7: Late Capitalism and the Ends of Sleep' by Jonathan Crary "A timely and important polemic that demonstrates how capitalism makes us willing connivers in our own sleeplessness" http://www.theguardian.com/books/201...n-crary-review


    Additional Reading List:


    'The Rhetoric of Reaction: Perversity, Futility, Jeopardy' Albert O. Hirschman
    'Invisible Hands: The Businessmen's Crusade Against the New Deal' Kim Phillips-Fein
    'The Unconscious Civilization' John Ralston Saul
    'Merchants of Doubt: How a Handful of Scientists Obscured the Truth on Issues from Tobacco Smoke to Global Warming' Naomi Oreskes, Erik M. M. Conway
    'The American Way of Poverty: How the Other Half Still Lives' Sasha Abramsky
    'The Betrayal of the American Dream' Donald L. Barlett, James B. Steele
    'The Reactionary Mind: Conservatism from Edmund Burke to Sarah Palin' Corey Robin
    'To Serve God and Wal-Mart: The Making of Christian Free Enterprise' Bethany Moreton
    'Voltaire's $#@!s: The Dictatorship of Reason in the West' John Ralston Saul




    "Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." Abraham Lincoln (Marxist ?)


    "Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone."
    John Maynard Keynes / E. Austin G. Robinson, As quoted in Michael Albert, Moving Forward: Programme for a Parlicipatory Economy (Edinburgh: AK, 2000)
    Wanna make America great, buy American owned, made in the USA, we do. AF Veteran, INFJ-A, I am not PC.

    "I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: 'O Lord make my enemies ridiculous.' And God granted it." Voltaire

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    We need more capitalism, not less.
    ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ


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    "Sandel thinks that… "

    That's the entire progressive problem, thinking, valuing for others.


    "classical liberalism – by trying to maintain neutrality on philosophical questions like “what is the good?”… "

    Classical liberalism is all about the good.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    This thread could have potential. Then again, it's midcan who seems to prefer letting others do his talking.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    We need more capitalism, not less.

    Maybe some more Tax Breaks for The Job Creators will help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by midcan5 View Post
    "Free economic transactions are supposed to benefit both the buyer and the seller, so why not allow prostitution, vote buying, pay-to-immigrate, selling ad space on your house or body, and premium versions of everything for those willing to pay more? Sandel thinks that these practices are degrading even if uncoerced, and argues that classical liberalism – by trying to maintain neutrality on philosophical questions like “what is the good?”–doesn’t have the resources to prevent rampant and undesirable commodification."


    http://www.partiallyexaminedlife.com...ichael-sandel/


    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/037..._li_tl?ie=UTF8


    "Capitalism is the ownership and use of the concrete but dynamic elements in a society - what is commonly known as the means of production. A capitalist is someone who produces more capital through the production of the means he owns. This necessitates the periodic reinvestment of part of the capital earned into the repair, modernization and expansion of the means. Capitalism is therefore the ownership of an abstraction called capital, rendered concrete by its ownership of the means of production, which through actual production creates new capital.... However, capitalism as conceived today tends to revolve around something called the profit motive, even though profit is neither a cause of capitalism nor at the heart of the capitalist action. Profit is a useful result of the process, nothing more. As for the ownership of the means of production, this has been superseded by their management. And yet, to manage is to administer, which is a bureaucratic function. Alternately, there is a growing reliance upon the use of capital itself to produce new capital. But that is speculation, not production. Much of the development of the means of production is now rejected as unprofitable and, frankly, beneath the dignity of the modern manager, who would rather leave such labour and factory-intensive "dirty" work to Third World societies. Finally , the contemporary idea of capitalism grandly presents "service" as its new sophisticated manifestation. But the selling of one's own skills is not a capitalist art. And most of the jobs being created by the service industries are with the exception of the high-technology sector descendants of the pre-eighteenth-century commerce in trade and services." p360 'Voltaire's $#@!s: The Dictatorship of Reason in the West' John Ralston Saul


    '24/7: Late Capitalism and the Ends of Sleep' by Jonathan Crary "A timely and important polemic that demonstrates how capitalism makes us willing connivers in our own sleeplessness" http://www.theguardian.com/books/201...n-crary-review


    Additional Reading List:


    'The Rhetoric of Reaction: Perversity, Futility, Jeopardy' Albert O. Hirschman
    'Invisible Hands: The Businessmen's Crusade Against the New Deal' Kim Phillips-Fein
    'The Unconscious Civilization' John Ralston Saul
    'Merchants of Doubt: How a Handful of Scientists Obscured the Truth on Issues from Tobacco Smoke to Global Warming' Naomi Oreskes, Erik M. M. Conway
    'The American Way of Poverty: How the Other Half Still Lives' Sasha Abramsky
    'The Betrayal of the American Dream' Donald L. Barlett, James B. Steele
    'The Reactionary Mind: Conservatism from Edmund Burke to Sarah Palin' Corey Robin
    'To Serve God and Wal-Mart: The Making of Christian Free Enterprise' Bethany Moreton
    'Voltaire's $#@!s: The Dictatorship of Reason in the West' John Ralston Saul




    "Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." Abraham Lincoln (Marxist ?)


    "Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone."
    John Maynard Keynes / E. Austin G. Robinson, As quoted in Michael Albert, Moving Forward: Programme for a Parlicipatory Economy (Edinburgh: AK, 2000)
    Close but no Cigar if you will

    First the reason to invest Capital is and always has been for profit when investing in the business sense.

    Second there is a reason that corporations and business managers and owners are investing in markets (or capital) as the author put it, and not investing in productions of goods or services? there is more profit in investing in capital, because the government is investing so heavily in the markets that it is nearly a sure bet.

    So it makes little sense to invest in brick and mortar if you will! Add to that the new regulations and taxes that are on their business operations and it makes no sense to expand your business at this time.

    And last the comment attributed to Lincoln. He was wrong.

    If you think that labor comes before capital investment, I have a field that you can hire a bunch of people to build anything that you want, but all they get to use is the field.

    Without the means of production and the tools of the trade there is no need for labor

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cigar View Post
    Maybe some more Tax Breaks for The Job Creators will help.
    Well raising there taxes by 8% sure is not working?

    What is your idea?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cigar View Post
    Maybe some more Tax Breaks for The Job Creators will help.
    Just just get rid of the income taxes all together.

    FAIR Tax instead.
    ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ


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    zelmo1234 (07-29-2014)

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    Well, that was quickly derailed by a non-sequitur. This will be a real meeting of the minds.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    Just just get rid of the income taxes all together.

    FAIR Tax instead.

    House Republicans quietly passed yet another tax cut, with a price tag of $115 billion.

    Here’s how the Child Tax Credit currently works: Couples receive a maximum credit of $1,000 per-child, meaning they can lower their tax bill by that amount. For instance, a couple with two kids and an income of $50,000 would owe $8,356 in federal income taxes. With the CTC, they would reduce their tax bill by $2,000, to $6,356. However, not everyone is eligible for the credit. Those with income below $3,000 cannot collect it. And for couples, the credit begins phasing out at $110,000 and is entirely phased out at $150,000. For singles, those numbers are $75,000 and $115,000, respectively.

    Thus, the current design of the CTC creates a marriage penalty. For instance, imagine a couple where each person makes $60,000. Separately, they would both be eligible to collect the full credit. But combined, their income ($120,000) would exceed the current phase-out threshold for couples filing jointly. Therefore, the couple could maximize their after-tax income by living together, but not marrying.
    Now, there’s very little to suggest this disincentive actually has a real-world impact, but House Republicans nevertheless advanced a policy they’ve wanted for years: they made it so that a couple can collect the same tax break, even if they file jointly. The same bill raised the phase-out ceiling to $150,000 and indexed it to inflation. The price tag: $115 billion over the next decade.

    What’s wrong with that? If you’re a deficit hawk, quite a bit, but there’s a more glaring concern here: the House GOP measure was structured to punish the poor while benefiting the rich.

    On the one hand, we have a new break for the upper-middle class, including households making up to $150,000 a year, which will be indexed to inflation. Any chance we can also index policies like the minimum wage to inflation? Of course not; that’s socialism.

    On other hand, current law on the Child Tax Credit also has a provision that makes more low-income Americans eligible to receive the tax break, but it expires in 2017. What does the new bill from House Republicans do about this? Nothing.

    http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-s...-wealthy-again

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