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Thread: Will martial law be introduced to the U.S.

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    Now that this is opened, I don't think that there will be general martial law in the US without a massive event, such as the destruction of our electrical infrastructure. Too many Americans have guns, and thanks to the last decade of war, a lot of Americans know how to fight a technologically superior enemy.
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    Bumped, because it now may be relevant again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    Now that this is opened, I don't think that there will be general martial law in the US without a massive event, such as the destruction of our electrical infrastructure. Too many Americans have guns, and thanks to the last decade of war, a lot of Americans know how to fight a technologically superior enemy.
    5 years later, it is becoming more apparent.
    I'm just glad my onliest gun is a little 22 cal that was a private purchase. Can't tax what they cant find.
    For waltky: http://quakes.globalincidentmap.com/
    "The Nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools."
    - Thucydides

    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote" B. Franklin
    Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crepitus View Post
    First of all I would like to point out the discussion title is "will martial law be introduced to the US" not "can martial law be introduced to the US". I never stated it couldn't happen, I said it wouldn't happen which is an important distinction.

    The next point, would citizen rise up if martial law were declared? I don't know. I would like to think so.


    But consider this: The US armed forces consists of about 1.5 million persons. There are over 300 million people in the US. Balance of force looks pretty adverse doesn't it? But that's not all! We aren't considering the "tooth to tail" ratio. That is, How many of those 1.5 million soldiers is actually a spear carrier. The best numbers I can find for that are from 2014 and say it comes in at 17% and that means there are actually only about 250,000 actual fighters in the armed forces. But it gets worse! A certain percentage of those are deployed somewhere out of the country. I can't find any solid numbers but it's gotta be a couple hundred thousand at least, and 17% are fighters who are not here. That's 250,000 - 34,000 = 216,000 left here in the US to take over an entire country. Doesn't look good does it?

    Next thing is, would all of them obey their orders? I posted a poll for our members so we will see, but I doubt all of them would so that cuts the numbers down even more. For arguments sake lets say that only 10% refuse to participate. 216,000 - 10% or 21,600 leaves 194,400 against a nation 300 million. That's 1 military fighting man per 1550 citizens. I don't care how many force multipliers you've got, there just aren't enough people! Everyone wouldn't have to fight back, just .3% puts it at 1,000,000 to less than 200,000. They'd be crazy to try.

    The NDAA thing is a tough one. Not being a lawyer I can't really tell you all the implications of that, but considering the only people I see kicking up a fuss about it are extreme right wing "news" sites I'd have to say that it's a matter of interpretation, which means it's an opinion and not a fact. In fact the president has stated it will not be used against american citizens.

    I believe that American exceptionalism is alive and well. The people are wising up to some of the things that have been going on and starting to force some changes. The NSA is being brought to heel and there are now restrictions on passing military equipment to domestic police. We are awake and we are fixing this.

    The national defense resources preparedness act signed in march of 2012 is nothing more than a restatement of policy that has been in place for decades and grants no authority to the President or the Cabinet that they don't already have under existing law.

    Congress did approve the Iran nuclear deal. No "abuse of executive power" occurred.

    In short, while it is very remotely possible that a crazed executive could attempt to declare martial law, in the unlikely event he or she could get it past congress it would fail miserably.
    A bunch of farmers defeated the worlds largest power back in the 1700's (revolutionary war) A rag tag group in Afghanistan defeated the French British Russian and American military.Those little fellows in Vietnam did pretty good as well.Don't think the same could not happen here.American patriots could be the governments worst enemy in decades.

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    Quote Originally Posted by montana View Post
    A bunch of farmers defeated the worlds largest power back in the 1700's (revolutionary war) A rag tag group in Afghanistan defeated the French British Russian and American military.Those little fellows in Vietnam did pretty good as well.Don't think the same could not happen here.American patriots could be the governments worst enemy in decades.
    Absolutely. Our future could end up as depicted in The Postman. More likely, however, is a fragmentation of the US into semi-autonomous regions, held together by something similar to the original Articles of Confederation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    Now that this is opened, I don't think that there will be general martial law in the US without a massive event, such as the destruction of our electrical infrastructure. Too many Americans have guns, and thanks to the last decade of war, a lot of Americans know how to fight a technologically superior enemy.
    I agree. Not in the US without a catastrophic event of nuclear proportions.
    Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Refugee View Post
    You have debunked nothing so far with opinions and assumptions. Start with ‘debunking’ facts.
    If this knowledge isn’t already in your head, get someone to help you.

    You state that martial law, or a state of emergency, whatever the term used to describe it, would never happen, but conceding that it can.
    ‘’I never stated it couldn't happen, I said it wouldn't happen which is an important distinction.’’
    The ‘important distinction’ is semantics. If something can happen, you need to put forward reasons why it wouldn’t.

    You have had to have explained to you what martial law is and have yet to answer that if you assume it’s a conquest,
    ‘’Martial law is indeed military conquest, although not necessarily a battle.''
    What parts of America did martial law ‘conquer’ when it was introduced nationally twice previously.

    1. ‘’The national defense resources preparedness act signed in march of 2012 is nothing more than a restatement of policy that has been in place for decades and grants no authority to the President or the Cabinet that they don't already have under existing law.’’
    2. ‘’In short, while it is very remotely possible that a crazed executive could attempt to declare martial law, in the unlikely event he or she could get it past congress it would fail miserably.’’
    3. ‘’The NDAA thing is a tough one. Not being a lawyer I can't really tell you all the implications of that . . . ‘’
    Then let someone else tell you.

    Article I, Section 1 of the Constitution. "All legislative powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives."

    For the first time in American history, we have a law authorizing the worldwide and indefinite military detention of people captured far from any battlefield. The NDAA has no temporal or geographic limitations. It is completely at odds with our values, violates the Constitution, and corrodes our Nation’s commitment to the rule of law.” – The ACLU (My bold).

    Let me point out what the NDRP stands for. ‘National Defense Resources Preparedness’. (My bold). This differs from the Defense Production Act of 1950, which allowed the mobilisation of resources in national emergencies. For the first time, the NDRP gives executive power to mobilise resources in peacetime and over rides congress.

    The scope of executive powers in America are frightening. President Obama (transferred to future Presidents), with his NDAA’s and NDRP are simply confirming and adding to them. This increase in executive power has been going on for decades, that they haven’t yet been enacted doesn’t mean they can’t be, given the right circumstances.

    http://dmc.members.sonic.net/sentinel/gvcon5.html

    Your opinions and assumptions are beliefs, easily dispelled with facts.

    ‘’Would citizen rise up if martial law were declared? I don't know. I would like to think so.’’
    ‘’I would like to think so’’, is an opinion. The facts are that on the two occassions when martial law occured in America they didn’t and never have under any local enforcement.

    ‘’I believe that American exceptionalism is alive and well’’ and
    ‘’ . . . the surest way to goad an American to action is to threaten his or her loved ones.’’
    An opinion followed by an assumption, the fallacies of which have been disproved by the images I’ve used and proving that when people are faced with legally authorised military power, they back down. In New Orleans, a thousand guns were legally confiscated by force. That’s fact, if you care to suggest that it wouldn’t happen again, that would be an opinion.

    ‘’Every generation thinks the following generation is dumb. What I like to call the "those darn kids" syndrome’’
    Think, the introduction of ‘Common Core’.

    1. ‘’Education Secretary Arne Duncan estimated that 82% of this country's public schools are not passing the test in educating our children.’’ publicschoolreview.com

    2. ‘’According to a study conducted in late April by the U.S. Department of Education and the National Institute of Literacy, 32 million adults in the U.S. can't read. That's 14 percent of the population. 21 percent of adults in the U.S. read below a 5th grade level, and 19 percent of high school graduates can't read.’’ Huffington post. November 6, 2015

    3. ‘’The whole-word method of teaching children to read – introduced by John Dewey and colleagues in the early 20th century and which permeates Common Core – is a significant cause of dyslexia among students. Public education's war against religion, the "great American math disaster," promotion of death education and the government's plan to lower standards for all so that "no one is left behind" are destroying the logic, reasoning and overall educational prowess of America's next generation.’’ Blumenfeld, S & Newman, A, 2015

    What you now need to do is to start debating why martial law will never be implemented, which will be difficult because it already has, on several occasions.
    You will need to factually explain why the President, who now has the authority to declare martial law in peace time, will not do so.
    You will need to give instances where people have risen up against previously enacted local or national martial law and not simply state, I don’t know, or I don’t think they will.

    By doing so, you will get to the heart of the debate and be able to explain why something that has already happened will never happen and why the citizens who have never risen up will rise up. You will also need to explain, why in times of peace, parts of America now look like a militarised war zone and how that produces ‘freedom.’
    You have neither done this yet, or debunked anything. You have provided a series of statements, beliefs and opinion, all of which have been debunked with facts, which you then ignore and move onto something else. Stick to the paragraph above and lets get to the heart of the matter.

    With that, it’s snowing heavily outside and I’m off to have a snowball fight with grade 1.

    dude, we've been in a state of military control since like forever.
    Doubt me? The flag with all that fancy trimming and gold lace is a sign of conquest by our own government. We see them everywhere. In churches, political buildings, football games, etc.
    The unadorned flag is the symbol of this nation and its legacy.
    Oh, HOW pretty..............and soooooooooooo deadly.
    This is democracy at work.............all hail democracy!!! It is military rule with force. In other words, Communism.
    Socialism is the nail and communism is the hammer.
    The democrats have already surrendered, joined up, and are now pushing their political agenda under duress to compel others to acquiesce peacefully as they burn our country to the ground.
    Now Joe wants to cozy up with China.............take a guess where this will end up.

    The gold fringe flag is historically used during times of war in maritime admiralty law(which we are in right now as well). So in other words, the gold fringe flag symbolizes maritime law.
    The gold fringe flag is not the same flag that is approved for our Constitutional Republic in USA code Title 4 Ch 1 & Ch 2. The fourth color (yellow) is not approved in the code. You’ll notice the tassles hanging from the flag. These are also symbolic of admiralty law, which is the law of the sea.
    So, the flags that are hanging in our government buildings and court rooms are actually representative of war-time in the law of the sea/admiralty law?? Yes. We are in fact, functioning in maritime admiralty law, and our court system is actually upholding a corporation that goes by the name of UNITED STATES. In other words, we are not in a republic, and we are not dealing with the constitutional United States of America. Well, actually, the UNITED STATES does have a constitution but it is not the same as the original Constitution that was drafted for the republic. This is why the gold fringed flag controversy is such a big deal, because it symbolizes war.
    https://areweallreallyeducated.com/w...lag-symbolize/

    In other words, we have been conquered by our own government............. and subject to military control. We are already in a state of emergency. The soldiers just haven't started shooting yet............
    For waltky: http://quakes.globalincidentmap.com/
    "The Nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools."
    - Thucydides

    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote" B. Franklin
    Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum

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    In every instance of a change of presidential administrations, kooks claim the outgoing president is going to declare martial law in order to hold on to power.
    Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

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    I don't know if it will in the near future, but all the illegitimate being flaunted by government officials certainly opens up the possibility.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Xl View Post
    I don't know if it will in the near future, but all the illegitimate being flaunted by government officials certainly opens up the possibility.
    The possibility is so far fetched or remote that’s it’s nearly non-existent.
    Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

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